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Author Topic: SymbOS (Read 239451 times)

Offline edoz

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #825 on: 2016.November.30. 11:20:41 »
I guess no ... For my MSX-virgin brain :) what I know about MSX hardware that it uses a dedicated video RAM, and the video IC (like V9000 but other, older ones too, like 9958, 9938 ...) needs only some (?) I/O ports towards the CPU. So maybe it would be quite easy to connect anything like that to the expansion bus of the EP? However then, you will get a dual monitor :) setup, since not so much a sane way to mix it with the Nick output (though Nick has "external colour" inputs, but first, AFAIK these ICs has analogue output (???) and the most important: you can't make sync between them either too much, I guess at least).

It is the same on the MSX.. you have a dual monitor .. one normal MSX output and one V9990. I think that it is all IO based.
Have fun with the Z80!

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #826 on: 2016.November.30. 11:43:08 »
I said "dreaming". For me that wouldn't be an Enterprise.

I think that the really missing piece on the EP is some form of hardware sprites. Or its very own form, never released but already planned. :(


Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #827 on: 2016.November.30. 11:54:01 »
I said "dreaming". For me that wouldn't be an Enterprise.
Same for me.

Quote
I think that the really missing piece on the EP is some form of hardware sprites. Or its very own form, never released but already planned. :(
I tried ask many hardware magician but no one want to do it :-(

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #828 on: 2016.November.30. 12:05:57 »
Have you ever asked if you can see the Sprites prototype for TVC?

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #829 on: 2016.November.30. 12:19:26 »
I guess no ... For my MSX-virgin brain :) what I know about MSX hardware that it uses a dedicated video RAM, and the video IC (like V9000 but other, older ones too, like 9958, 9938 ...) needs only some (?) I/O ports towards the CPU. So maybe it would be quite easy to connect anything like that to the expansion bus of the EP? However then, you will get a dual monitor :) setup, since not so much a sane way to mix it with the Nick output (though Nick has "external colour" inputs, but first, AFAIK these ICs has analogue output (???) and the most important: you can't make sync between them either too much, I guess at least).

Ahaaa ... So I meant "I guess so" and not "I guess no" :D

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #830 on: 2016.November.30. 13:06:48 »
The V9990 is accessed only by these few ports (on the MSX):

; Port defines
G9K_VRAM                EQU     #60     ; R/W
G9K_PALETTE             EQU     #61     ; R/W
G9K_CMD_DATA            EQU     #62     ; R/W
G9K_REG_DATA            EQU     #63     ; R/W
G9K_REG_SELECT          EQU     #64     ; W
G9K_STATUS              EQU     #65     ; R
G9K_INT_FLAG            EQU     #66     ; R/W
G9K_SYS_CTRL            EQU     #67     ; W
G9K_OUTPUT_CTRL         EQU     #6F     ; R/W

So you only need a range of 16 port addresses and can fully use the V9990, which has its own video ram. So maybe it is pretty easy to build an interface for it. SymbOS supports a resolution of up to 1024x212 at 16 colours.
But I agree that a Graphics9000 output wouldn't look like an Enterprise anymore, but it would be a nice project anyway :)
On the MSX it was a little bit different, as it is still looking similiar to the VDP9938 etc. Though even here there was not that much software released for the Graphics9000, a huge part of the apps which run with the G9K are now coming from SymbOS.

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #831 on: 2016.November.30. 13:12:54 »
I said "dreaming". For me that wouldn't be an Enterprise.

I think that the really missing piece on the EP is some form of hardware sprites.
And I am still dreaming about Ethernet for the Enterprise :P

Since this year we finally have a network hardware for the CPC as well (based on the ESP8266 wlan modul):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB6X7V6fVyE

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #832 on: 2016.November.30. 13:32:53 »
I'm a bit confused with ESP8266. As far as I know (or knew ...) it supports mostly UART-like control, and SPI cannot be used for this purpose too much and the ESP only supports SPI for mostly being a master and not a slave what we would need here. However on a page found from you the description of the youtube video (M4 Board – The SPI IPC) it states that indeed, ESP is the master. But I am lost then, how can something direct ESP to something when SPI communication is initiated and controlled by the ESP, so the opposite direction what I would think? Do you know any further how it is realized? Thanks.

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #833 on: 2016.November.30. 14:10:38 »
The V9990 is accessed only by these few ports (on the MSX):

Hmm. I am wondering if it's possible to create a "bridge" to connect MSX "cards" onto Enterprise. Maybe not limited to V9990 stuff ... After all both system uses Z80 and its bus handling methods, though for sure there can be specialities, I/O port collusion, exact timing (ie, different clock speed, wait states, whatever). At least "simple" cards (from the viewpoint of bus connection and needed features/timing, I mean that "simple") should work, which are not picky about the very accurate MSX stuffs.

Offline edoz

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #834 on: 2016.November.30. 14:18:45 »


Hmm. I am wondering if it's possible to create a "bridge" to connect MSX "cards" onto Enterprise. Maybe not limited to V9990 stuff ... After all both system uses Z80 and its bus handling methods, though for sure there can be specialities, I/O port collusion, exact timing (ie, different clock speed, wait states, whatever). At least "simple" cards (from the viewpoint of bus connection and needed features/timing, I mean that "simple") should work, which are not picky about the very accurate MSX stuffs.

I started the same discussion for the CPC as well. I'm not a hardware specialist but for I/O devices it must be easy to do i guess?
Probably just a connector or so.

Link to discussion on MSX.ORG
Have fun with the Z80!

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #835 on: 2016.November.30. 17:26:43 »
I'm a bit confused with ESP8266. As far as I know (or knew ...) it supports mostly UART-like control, and SPI cannot be used for this purpose too much and the ESP only supports SPI for mostly being a master and not a slave what we would need here. However on a page found from you the description of the youtube video (M4 Board – The SPI IPC) it states that indeed, ESP is the master. But I am lost then, how can something direct ESP to something when SPI communication is initiated and controlled by the ESP, so the opposite direction what I would think? Do you know any further how it is realized? Thanks.

As it happens I have been looking into this a bit  and although the ESP can be a SPI slave, we seem to be on the edge of what has been tried and/or documented here! As a master it is geared around sending command/length/data (as expected by eeprom chips etc) but each part of that can be disabled ie. it could be configured to just deal with bytes. But the official documentation says that as a slave those cannot be disabled.

The ESP being a slave seems a more natural way to use it in this scenario for the reasons you say and also so that everything works at z80 speed rather than 32-bit 80MHz processor speed, but I guess it would be possible to design a system which is idling most of the time eg. sending 0s each way until the z80 sends a non-zero command.

There needs to be a protocol running over the SPI link. That could presumably be the AT+ commands as with the UART but it could be something else...basically the internal ESP networking API implemented as serial bytes.

A few ESPs have just arrived in the post...

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #836 on: 2016.November.30. 17:49:14 »
I am not an ESP8266 expert at all, but the only thing I heard is, that you can communicate via AT commands like with a modem. Here you can trigger commands and get results. There should also be the possibility to reprogram the ESP8266 to communicate in another way.
In case of the "M4 Board" for the CPC the core part is an M4Cortex, which is communicating with the CPC and controls both the ESP8266 and the SD card reader. So the Z80 doesn't communicate with the ESP8266 directly.

A few ESPs have just arrived in the post...
Wow! A Z80 machine with Wifi really rocks! :)



Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #837 on: 2016.November.30. 18:17:22 »
Wow! A Z80 machine with Wifi really rocks! :)

Indeed :D Now, it would be extra cool to access a remote filesystem over the network :-P Well, maybe not so much a protocol like CIFS, though I don't know the details, but maybe it's kinda complicated for a 8 bit computer.

Offline geco

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #838 on: 2016.November.30. 22:24:34 »
The Symamp version what I sent to Prodatron hang (and put dirt on the screen to the cursor position )sometimes when the music moved forward and backward at PT3 playing, it took 2 days to find the reason, on EP we should save AF register before AY register playback and restore it after, I did not experience hang on CPC, and rarely experienced it on MSX , if it happens then AF save and restore has to be applied (I did not try newest version on CPC)
EP version has limitation, I could implement envelope emulation only in 50Hz instead of 1Khz therefore high frequency envelopes sounds ugly on EP :( and if AY plays noise and tone in the same time, SYMAMP plays only noise at noise frequency.

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #839 on: 2016.November.30. 23:01:03 »
Thanks so much Geco!
I am currently enjoying my Enterprise 128 as a very cool jukebox with your new SymAmp version and many PT3 modules! :D
I will make more tests tomorrow!