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Author Topic: SymbOS (Read 446837 times)

Offline szipucsu

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #645 on: 2015.May.05. 13:05:08 »
Mouses for the masses! Mices for everybody!
I don't understand. :D Words "mouses" and "mices" do not exist. I even doubt "masses" unless you mean masses in a church. :D
100 SOUND SOURCE 2,STYLE 128,PITCH 25.2,SYNC 1
110 SOUND PITCH 25,SYNC 1
120 ! Videos

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #646 on: 2015.May.05. 13:31:00 »
I was calling to rebellion....the common people do not use orthography, but is who at last really create the languages...

------------------------------

Yo estaba llamando a sublevarse.... el pueblo llano no usa la ortografía, pero es al final quien crea las lenguas...

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #647 on: 2015.May.18. 09:45:13 »
Prodatron! As I see you documented the floppy problem on turbo machines :-) (On the photo with the 6MHz prototype machine)

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #648 on: 2015.May.18. 09:47:33 »
And the most frequently asked question at the party: when coming some sound to the EP SymbOS? :-)

Which sound sources exist in SymbOS?
Only a separate music players for various files, or exist some general sound driver of the OS what the applications can use?
« Last Edit: 2015.May.18. 09:54:53 by Zozosoft »

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #649 on: 2015.May.18. 16:53:56 »
Prodatron! As I see you documented the floppy problem on turbo machines :-) (On the photo with the 6MHz prototype machine)

Yes, I am currently still working on network support, I hope I have the Network Daemon fully running soon. After this I will attach the EXDOS card again and can check the FDC driver, as now I have a "Turbo"-Enterprise, too, thanks to you, Zozo! :razz: :)

And the most frequently asked question at the party: when coming some sound to the EP SymbOS? :-)

Which sound sources exist in SymbOS?
Only a separate music players for various files, or exist some general sound driver of the OS what the applications can use?
Currently there is only SymAmp, the music player for SymbOS. Somehow it supports plugins for different music formats, but this is more on source code level. I just saw, that the sources are not included in the download area of www.symbos.de, so I have to add it!
It should be possible to add a new "plugin" for EP soundmodules/formats in SymAmp.

Another plan is to develop a "sound daemon", which can be used to play "system sounds" or even different sound modules, if the present hardware is supporting them. This will be quite an interesting project.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #650 on: 2015.May.18. 20:36:54 »
And another question from the TVC friends: the TVC also needs SymbOS :-)

Graphics are 6845, floppy WD1793, SD interface are very similar to the Enterprise version. This is the easy part :-)
The hard problem is the memory paging :-( The 64K+ model has a 128K RAM inside, but I think the paging is too limited for SymbOS :-(

But someone told: There is a signal on the expansion bus, which can disable the internal memory. Then probably it is possible to develop external expansion which uses own paging, and is enough flexible for the SymbOS.

Can you define least which paging methods are needed to be supported by the hw for running SymbOS?
« Last Edit: 2015.May.18. 21:00:11 by szipucsu »

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #651 on: 2015.May.18. 20:53:40 »
There was some discussion about this on facebook (I can't remember now where exactly). But if you develop an external memory expansion with paging enough for SymbOS, then we can have SymbOS for almost every computer this way, tons of ports can be done, even for Primo maybe :-P Just one sad thing, that not for the "stock" machine too much :(

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #652 on: 2015.May.18. 21:05:24 »
But if you develop an external memory expansion with paging enough for SymbOS, then we can have SymbOS for almost every computer this way, tons of ports can be done, even for Primo maybe :-P
No because, most of machines not have capability for disable the internal memory, then you can't add new paging mechanism.

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #653 on: 2015.May.18. 21:17:19 »
No because, most of machines not have capability for disable the internal memory, then you can't add new paging mechanism.

Ok, it depends how you define "external", in my dictionary, some cut or "convert to jumper" on PCB is OK (etc etc). But well, ok, it's kinda off-topic.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #654 on: 2015.May.18. 21:37:21 »
Ok, it depends how you define "external", in my dictionary, some cut or "convert to jumper" on PCB is OK (etc etc).
:-)
If I understood what the TVC guys wrote: Don't need any modifications on the machine, just plug in a new expansion.

Now need the specifications from Prodatron, then the guys can think about how possible to do it :-)
« Last Edit: 2015.May.18. 21:49:59 by Zozosoft »

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #655 on: 2015.May.18. 21:59:59 »
The minimum requirements for the memory mapping would be the Amstrad CPC one:
Here the ram is divided into 64K banks. You have one primary 64K bank (the first 64K) and a number of up to 8 or 15 (576KB is usually the maximum, but there is a mod, where you can have 1024K instead of 576K) secondary 64K banks.
You have the following modi:

- mode 0 ("#c0"): show the primary 64K bank (this is used for executing SymbOS core parts [placed in the primary 64K])
- mode 1 ("#c1"): show the first 48K (at #0000) of the primary 64K bank and the last 16K (at #c000) of a secondary (1-8/15) 64K bank (this is used for accessing GUI data structures of applications by the Desktop Manager without the need to relocate pointers inside these structures)
- mode 2 ("#c2"): show a complete secondary (1-8/15) 64K bank (this is used for executing applications)
- mode 4-7 ("#c4-7"): show the first 16K (at #0000) and the last 32K (at #8000) of the primary 64K bank, and one of the four 16K (at #4000) area of a secondary (1-8/15) 64K bank (this is used for accessing any part of any application by the core parts of SymbOS)

There is even a 3rd mode, but it's not used in SymbOS.
I have no idea, if this would be more simple to implement in hardware or if the Enterprise (=MSX, Amstrad PCW, Amstrad NCxxx) way would be more easy?

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #656 on: 2015.May.18. 22:18:19 »
And the screen memory how added for these?

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #657 on: 2015.May.18. 22:44:16 »
It depends. Usually SymbOS is very flexible with this. Where is the video ram located in the TVC? How is the bitmap mode organsized? Does it encode the colours in bitmap mode in the same way like the EP (and CPC)?
On the CPC the video ram can be placed anywhere in the primary 64K (a little bit like for the EP).

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #658 on: 2015.May.18. 23:23:57 »
Where is the video ram located in the TVC?
It is can be paged to Page 2 (8000-BFFFh). 16K in the 32K and 64K models and 64K in the 64K+ model. (This is a additional memory, then the total is 48K, 80K, and 128K).

Only In 64K+ model: additional register for select which 16K used by the CTRC, and which paged to the Z80. Also possible page video memory to Page 1 (4000-7FFFh).
 
Quote
How is the bitmap mode organsized? Does it encode the colours in bitmap mode in the same way like the EP (and CPC)?
Yes. (It is also exist a software TVC emulator for EP :-) )

My idea: 4 paging registers for Page 0-3. Bit 7 switch at the current page the internal/expansion accessing. Other bits select 16K pages, 128 pages possible=2MB (more than enought for SymbOS :-) )
When accessing screen, the Page 0,1,3 from the expansion, and Page 2 from the internal, where paged the video memory with the original paging registers.

What do you think?

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #659 on: 2015.May.18. 23:32:44 »
Before I make the final concept:
Everything looks fine, but would it also possible to have the screen mapped at #c000? :) (just a question, as it would make things easier)