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Author Topic: SymbOS (Read 444963 times)

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #510 on: 2014.December.22. 07:44:58 »
For the first step we will be very happy with full screen without big black stripes at the top and bottom :oops:
« Last Edit: 2014.December.22. 14:29:59 by szipucsu »

Offline geco

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #511 on: 2014.December.22. 09:07:04 »
I better would like a hires interlaced screen. I like more what the standard EP can do with the actual tools at hand of everybody. If you add that sofisticated graphics or sound cards you are creating a new explendorous  elitist computer unreachable by the normal user. It will end being another very different thing than an Enterprise.
Totally agree :)

Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #512 on: 2014.December.22. 09:51:35 »
I better would like a hires interlaced screen. I like more what the standard EP can do with the actual tools at hand of everybody. If you add that sofisticated graphics or sound cards you are creating a new explendorous  elitist computer unreachable by the normal user. It will end being another very different thing than an Enterprise.

Yes, two different things, but I still prefer even tries things nobody would have it as hw too much, just because it's interesting :) That's all, even if not so practical :)

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #513 on: 2014.December.22. 10:32:46 »
It is interesting to me too... but SymbOS is a jump to a standard that refuses by definition to be EP related.

What is an Enterprise? A ton of things linked by EXOS. And now, thanks to Prodatron, we have another new aspect of what is an EP but barely linked to its OS.

It could be fantastic to have at least a simple EP128 emulator running on SymbOS to load old games or applications...

Offline Trebmint

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #514 on: 2014.December.22. 10:45:17 »
I don't think you'll see any interlace screens or graphics card support in Symbos for a short while, if ever. On the one hand you have a very specific hardware method for the EP like interlacing, which is great but doesn't fit with the other flavours of Symbos that well in that its not needed on the MSX and is unusable on the CPC. Once you rise above 4 colours the Symbos method is a 16 colour fixed palette. Break this you break all the software.
As cool as Symbos is its still somewhat a lowest common denominator piece of software meaning something running on EP has to work also on the CPC, PCW etc.
As for graphics cards using say the GFX9000 then if anyone builds it and I'm sure Prodatron would support it. But again all these things take time, and I think Prodatron now thinks the SymbosEP is mature enough that he can move back to developing Symbos 3.0 for all its recipiant machines.
The thing that bored Prodatron and forced him to stop developing for 6-7 years last time was people asking for drivers for another of the 1000 FDC's that the MSX seems to have. Covering old ground over and over is not fun and we all need to keep growing and developing new areas rather than maintaining what already exists.
3.0 is Something I think will move Symbos to a new level... especially network support.
I guess what I mean overall is that Symbos is its own standard into which CPC, MSX,PCW and EP can all perform. As an CPC fan its easy to get very specific about features the CPC might be able to do that the others can't.... But symbos isn't CPC its Symbos, and thats its own standard and when I think for developing software for it I'm developing for not just my old friends but new friends here and on MSX.ORG etc

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #515 on: 2014.December.22. 11:22:54 »
In effect, more important is for all the EP users to have plenty of memory, a high capacity storage, a mouse standard and a way to communicate... 

Offline edoz

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #516 on: 2014.December.22. 12:41:03 »
I don't think you'll see any interlace screens or graphics card support in Symbos for a short while, if ever. On the one hand you have a very specific hardware method for the EP like interlacing, which is great but doesn't fit with the other flavours of Symbos that well in that its not needed on the MSX and is unusable on the CPC. Once you rise above 4 colours the Symbos method is a 16 colour fixed palette. Break this you break all the software.
As cool as Symbos is its still somewhat a lowest common denominator piece of software meaning something running on EP has to work also on the CPC, PCW etc.
As for graphics cards using say the GFX9000 then if anyone builds it and I'm sure Prodatron would support it. But again all these things take time, and I think Prodatron now thinks the SymbosEP is mature enough that he can move back to developing Symbos 3.0 for all its recipiant machines.
The thing that bored Prodatron and forced him to stop developing for 6-7 years last time was people asking for drivers for another of the 1000 FDC's that the MSX seems to have. Covering old ground over and over is not fun and we all need to keep growing and developing new areas rather than maintaining what already exists.
3.0 is Something I think will move Symbos to a new level... especially network support.
I guess what I mean overall is that Symbos is its own standard into which CPC, MSX,PCW and EP can all perform. As an CPC fan its easy to get very specific about features the CPC might be able to do that the others can't.... But symbos isn't CPC its Symbos, and thats its own standard and when I think for developing software for it I'm developing for not just my old friends but new friends here and on MSX.ORG etc

I think you have a point ;) 3.0 would be cool!!! Maybe we can make the GFX9000 a standard for each platform :D
Have fun with the Z80!

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #517 on: 2014.December.22. 12:49:20 »
My current EP-specific schedule looks like this:

Short term:
* fixing some issues with the floppy disc driver (increase speed, make it working on Turbo machines)
* developing a small EXDOS-based setup tool for installing the proper INI file
* adding other missing things (but it seems to be very complete already, so maybe there is nothing else left)
-> this will be done until the release of SymbOS 3.0, which is hopefully in spring 2015

Long term:
* expand the screen size to the maximum (as Zozo mentioned); I think the screen size should be less than 32K, otherwise it will probably become too slow, so I am not sure, if using interlace would make sense for increasing the resolution
* allow switching between EXOS and SymbOS
* probably adding other EP specific stuff (things like IDE or RTC support etc. ...we will see)
-> this will be done after the release of SymbOS 3.0

Of course the EP version will always include all general new developments and apps for SymbOS!

Offline Trebmint

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #518 on: 2014.December.22. 12:56:35 »
The issue of when new hardware starts to take away from what defined the original machine is one that's had on pretty much every retro computer. And the fact is it is a personal judgement so there is no right or wrong. The symbos concept has become "If its Z80 and 128k with a bitmap screen its a possible symbos target"... After that I think Prodatron considers any additional hardware possible as long as these core ideas are kept in place. More memory, more storage, better i/o are all benefits but should never become a neccessity.

Offline gflorez

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #519 on: 2014.December.22. 14:08:18 »

* allow switching between EXOS and SymbOS


Is it possible with enough memory? I mean: doesn't SymbOS destroy the EXOS environment when it runs?

Because then I don't want an EP128 emu inside SymbOS....

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #520 on: 2014.December.22. 14:27:52 »
Is it possible with enough memory? I mean: doesn't SymbOS destroy the EXOS environment when it runs?
Yes, it is very easy on more than 128K
But you should use not the FFh segment as video memory. As I know the other memories are allocated on the right way.
« Last Edit: 2014.December.22. 14:33:53 by szipucsu »

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #521 on: 2014.December.22. 15:06:52 »
But you should use not the FFh segment as video memory. As I know the other memories are allocated on the right way.
Exactly, but on an 128K machine there is no chance to get 8 pages allocated from EXOS, so in this special case I take #FFh in a fixed way.
The "power" version with enhanced resolution and the possibility to switch between EXOS/SymbOS will allocate ALL memory in the polite way.

Btw, EXOS "Function 24 - Allocate Segment" doesn't seem to support "please allocate a segment inside the video ram area", is this correct?

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #522 on: 2014.December.22. 15:14:56 »
Btw, EXOS "Function 24 - Allocate Segment" doesn't seem to support "please allocate a segment inside the video ram area", is this correct?
Yes. I repeat the allocation util got a video segment then free up the other non needed segment.

For the SymbOS situation I suggest: allocate all available memory, make a list from the segment numbers, then select from the list the video segment(s) and segments for memory banks, and finaly free up the remains.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #523 on: 2014.December.22. 20:44:12 »
BDW: it would be cool is someone create a YouTube Movie running SymbOS on a real Enterprise machine !!
I tried to make a video, but the camera in VGA mode had very ugly results, Full HD mode has a very big file, ~800MB :-(
Anyway here it is.

Prodatron if you like it, can you put it to your youtube?

I'm not a movie director, probably someone can make far better :oops:
« Last Edit: 2014.December.22. 21:09:46 by szipucsu »

Offline edoz

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #524 on: 2014.December.22. 23:39:27 »
I tried to make a video, but the camera in VGA mode had very ugly results, Full HD mode has a very big file, ~800MB :-(
Anyway here it is.

Prodatron if you like it, can you put it to your youtube?

I'm not a movie director, probably someone can make far better :oops:

Wow!! nice movie!! Your monitor gives a very good quality!! Which monitor you are using ?
Have fun with the Z80!