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Author Topic: SymbOS (Read 610007 times)

Offline Povi

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #330 on: 2014.November.16. 14:04:57 »
Quote from: Z80System on 2014.November.15. 22:42:45
Anyway ... in this way, every platform specific program, game, demo can be possible on the top SymbOS ?

OK, but why do you want to make platform specific sw over the Symbos? The only EP-specific sw, I can imagine in Symbos is an app, that enables to run EP executables (file type 5), and after finish run, the app restores Symbos.
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Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #331 on: 2014.November.16. 15:56:39 »
Quote from: Povi on 2014.November.16. 14:04:57
OK, but why do you want to make platform specific sw over the Symbos? The only EP-specific sw, I can imagine in Symbos is an app, that enables to run EP executables (file type 5), and after finish run, the app restores Symbos.

More-or-less I agree, but of course a sound player using Dave is EP-specific after all but not so bad to have :) For other things, fullscreen mode is still useful with some kind of EP specific video modes at _some_ cases at least (eg an image viewer can work as a portable SymbOS app, but can have fullscreen mode to use EP specific video mode to be able to show images in better quality using tricky LPTs etc). Though I don't see it's too useful to have EP-specific things _only_ since then it makes much more sense to write them as an EXOS app and not SymbOS anyway.

Running an EXOS app while in SymbOS can  be useful sometimes maybe, though there can be problems, eg "take over the control" over SymbOS when it is not about doing a disk operation etc, as it would be a crash possibility to reprogram WD by EXDOS meanwhile, etc.
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Offline edoz

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #332 on: 2014.November.16. 17:03:20 »
Quote from: lgb on 2014.November.16. 15:56:39
More-or-less I agree, but of course a sound player using Dave is EP-specific after all but not so bad to have :) For other things, fullscreen mode is still useful with some kind of EP specific video modes at _some_ cases at least (eg an image viewer can work as a portable SymbOS app, but can have fullscreen mode to use EP specific video mode to be able to show images in better quality using tricky LPTs etc). Though I don't see it's too useful to have EP-specific things _only_ since then it makes much more sense to write them as an EXOS app and not SymbOS anyway.

Running an EXOS app while in SymbOS can  be useful sometimes maybe, though there can be problems, eg "take over the control" over SymbOS when it is not about doing a disk operation etc, as it would be a crash possibility to reprogram WD by EXDOS meanwhile, etc.

About sound. Which sound 'devices' does the Enterprise have ? (or add-on hardware for sound.) 
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Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #333 on: 2014.November.16. 17:16:53 »
Quote from: edoz on 2014.November.16. 17:03:20
About sound. Which sound 'devices' does the Enterprise have ? (or add-on hardware for sound.)

EP has two key featured ICs (I mean built in): one of the them is "Nick" which is responsible for video. The other is "Dave" which does quite lots of things, like interrupt 'controller', memory mapper, but it also produces the audio. Dave is a custom solution, so on Enterprise-128 not the well known "AY" (AY-3-8910/8912/etc and compatibles, YM2149, etc ... also known as "PSG") was used for generating audio as with many other Z80 based machines (well this fact sometimes made EP users sad eg with ported games from another Z80 computers using the "AY"), but an own solution. It can produces 4 channel audio in stereo, though the wave form is somewhat limited, if I remember correctly there is some kind of white noise (one channel), and of course square wave (three channels), though there are some methods to modify with polynomial counters configured. Channels do have left and right volume control as well, so it's stereo. Dave also supports simple D/A functionality with 6 bit resolution. Of course many tricks exist to "extract" more out of the chip it was designed for :)

http://ep.lgb.hu/doc/Dave.html
« Last Edit: 2014.November.16. 19:59:49 by lgb »
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Offline lgb

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #334 on: 2014.November.16. 18:54:10 »
Quote from: Trebmint on 2014.November.14. 10:08:23
@Edoz - Symstudio in MSX DSK settings can also be used for the Enterprise. Cool really I have no work to do on that. I will of course set up a compile for Enterprise button to make it look like I'm doing lots of work

"look like I'm doing lots of work" -> best comment ever :)
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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #335 on: 2014.November.16. 18:56:47 »
Good topic. Are there any standard music formats (modules) for the Enterprise available? I searched a little bit on Youtube and found this (*.TUN):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tEnBLwOeIs
(especially the 2nd part of this video looks interesting :) )
Would be cool to have music playback in SymAmp on the Enterprise as well!
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #336 on: 2014.November.16. 19:12:51 »
The Digitrax Modules (.DTM) are plays digitalized samples, like as Amiga .MOD files (lot of .MOD exist in DTM converted format).
Because it is need a lot of CPU power then I think it is not too ideal for SymbOS :oops:

Playing AY music are possible with software AY -> Dave conversion IRQ routine, but some AY functions can not simulated.
IstvanV and Geco are the masters of the AY playing on Enterprise :-)
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Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #337 on: 2014.November.16. 19:17:34 »
EP plays a sid format, also, but I do not know it's a satandard sid or not,

and it plays 2 format of its 2 music editor program, not related to the pervios ones, only related to the DAVE chip ...
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #338 on: 2014.November.16. 19:28:44 »
And I created PT3 player, which are also using AY emulation.
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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #339 on: 2014.November.16. 21:09:17 »
Quote from: Zozosoft on 2014.November.16. 19:28:44
And I created PT3 player, which are also using AY emulation.
Very cool! I wonder if it "only" converts the AY registers to the EP-Dave or does it do more to play PT3s?
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #340 on: 2014.November.16. 21:35:01 »
Quote from: Prodatron on 2014.November.16. 21:09:17
Very cool! I wonder if it "only" converts the AY registers to the EP-Dave or does it do more to play PT3s?
If you think about 1:1 register conversion then the answer is: do it more.
I used the existing PT3 player code from the net, and AY writes changed to subrutine calls for AY conversion routine, which is developed by IstvanV.
This routine do some calculations for the frequency values, and try to convert the noise usage to Dave noise channel.
The main problem if I know right: the AY have 3 channel, and any channel can play normal sound or noise. Dave have a 3 sound channel and 1 noise channel (all are stereo).
Another problem with the envelopes, AY do it from hw, at the Enterprise no hw envelopes, EXOS SOUND: device do sw envelopes at 50Hz interrupts. This AY emulation routine also try to emulate these in interrupt routine. 
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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #341 on: 2014.November.16. 21:46:10 »
Quote from: Zozosoft on 2014.November.16. 21:35:01
If you think about 1:1 register conversion then the answer is: do it more.
I used the existing PT3 player code from the net, and AY writes changed to subrutine calls for AY conversion routine, which is developed by IstvanV.
This routine do some calculations for the frequency values, and try to convert the noise usage to Dave noise channel.
The main problem if I know right: the AY have 3 channel, and any channel can play normal sound or noise. Dave have a 3 sound channel and 1 noise channel (all are stereo).
Another problem with the envelopes, AY do it from hw, at the Enterprise no hw envelopes, EXOS SOUND: device do sw envelopes at 50Hz interrupts. This AY emulation routine also try to emulate these in interrupt routine.

SymAmp currently supports 3 different AY sound formats (Starkos [CPC], Soundtrakker 128 [CPC], PT3 [ZX Spectrum]). I wonder if playing such sounds would only require some clever conversion of the registers to Dave or if you have to analyse the sound module itself to have a good playback on the Dave chip?
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #342 on: 2014.November.16. 22:26:00 »
Quote from: Prodatron on 2014.November.16. 21:46:10
I wonder if playing such sounds would only require some clever conversion of the registers to Dave
Just a clever conversion. Attached disk image, you can try it :-)

Quote
or if you have to analyse the sound module itself to have a good playback on the Dave chip?
With this simple conversion not all music will be good. If any one who is more familiar in music things can write analyzer-converter I think will better, but I think this is not too easy task.
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #343 on: 2014.November.16. 22:55:10 »
Quote from: Prodatron on 2014.November.16. 21:46:10
Starkos [CPC], Soundtrakker 128 [CPC]
If exist available player code for these, then I think easy to add these to my player :-)
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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #344 on: 2014.November.17. 00:03:44 »
Quote from: Zozosoft on 2014.November.16. 22:26:00
Just a clever conversion. Attached disk image, you can try it :-)
With this simple conversion not all music will be good. If any one who is more familiar in music things can write analyzer-converter I think will better, but I think this is not too easy task.
That's so cool! Great work! Now I have good hope that SymAmp will work on the EP soon, too! :)
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