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Author Topic: SymbOS (Read 100164 times)

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #105 on: 2014.November.03. 23:36:17 »
Or is it my problem, to solve my program using for example 256K memory with SymbOS, still ?
« Last Edit: 2014.November.03. 23:59:06 by Z80System »
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Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #106 on: 2014.November.03. 23:54:50 »
You still have to work within 64K banks, but you can switch between these banks with interbank-calls. There are also functions for accessing and copying memory between any locations. Memory in SymbOS within the 1MB is always addressed with its bank-number (0-15) and its 16bit address (0-65535).

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #107 on: 2014.November.03. 23:58:12 »
Zozosoft already made his EP to work with a Z80 at a clock of 10MHz.

But it is a newer Z80 what Zozo had to use achieving this.
And unfortunately this newer Z80 cannot work with the undocumented instruction set of the original Z80.

Is it impossible to manage SymbOS not using undocumented instructions ? 'Cause in that case, it can be running on a speed X2.5 of the original EP ...
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Offline Trebmint

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #108 on: 2014.November.03. 23:58:43 »
When somebody writes an application to SymbOS (I suppose they can use C or C++), what are the limitations of the application program ? In terms of memory or such ...

When I wrote programs in C to EP, the memory was consumed too fast by the compiled C program ... With SymbOS can I use 256K program code or such ?
Prodatron has told me over the last few days about the Enterprise port, so I've just re-signed into the forum. My name is Trebmint and I'm the coder of something called symstudio, which is a PC based IDE for symbos. basically it offers the simplest way to develop an application. The project is on going, but in the nest few weeks a major upgrade will be released.

I created a few videos many months ago, but hopefully this will give you a little idea of what Symstudio does. Basically its a form editor, media creation tool with an assembler and Basic language built in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqEjBHgdL_A

As for memory. Applications can only be 64k, but the data can be 1Mb in size if you choose

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #109 on: 2014.November.04. 00:07:33 »
Zozosoft already made his EP to work with a Z80 at a clock of 10MHz.

But it is a newer Z80 what Zozo had to use achieving this.
And unfortunately this newer Z80 cannot work with the undocumented instruction set of the original Z80.

Is it impossible to manage SymbOS not using undocumented instructions ? 'Cause in that case, it can be running on a speed X2.5 of the original EP ...

You are probably speaking about the Z180? SymbOS makes extensive use of the undocumented IXL/IXH/IYL/IYH 8bit registers, so you have to add a trap IRQ routine for these instructions and emulate them with own routines (which is possible with the Z180 AFAIK), but it will slow down everything a lot, so I am not sure, if this makes sense... :/ Better use a eZ80 :P

Offline Prodatron

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #110 on: 2014.November.04. 00:10:26 »
Prodatron has told me over the last few days about the Enterprise port, so I've just re-signed into the forum. My name is Trebmint and I'm the coder of something called symstudio, which is a PC based IDE for symbos. basically it offers the simplest way to develop an application. The project is on going, but in the nest few weeks a major upgrade will be released.

I created a few videos many months ago, but hopefully this will give you a little idea of what Symstudio does. Basically its a form editor, media creation tool with an assembler and Basic language built in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqEjBHgdL_A

As for memory. Applications can only be 64k, but the data can be 1Mb in size if you choose

Will be cool to have the new EP screen modes in SymStudio soon! :)

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #111 on: 2014.November.04. 00:17:33 »
Quote
Better use a eZ80

Hmmm ... I'm afraid of there are causes making Zozo to use the Z180 ... or maybe he actually had that CPU only at his hands ...

I will ask him when he will be here at the morning ...
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #112 on: 2014.November.04. 01:01:56 »
Zozosoft already made his EP to work with a Z80 at a clock of 10MHz.

But it is a newer Z80 what Zozo had to use achieving this.
It is not fully true!

10MHz working with standard Z80, just replace the old Z80A with a new one which are produced for 10MHz (Z84C0010PEG)

It is a another project for a Z180. (And the final goal a switchable Z80/Z180 turbo system :-) )

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #113 on: 2014.November.04. 01:02:20 »
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqEjBHgdL_A

As for memory. Applications can only be 64k, but the data can be 1Mb in size if you choose

That looks very cool on the videos,
but unfortunately the Symstudio's webpage does not work for me ...

Anyway ... Is the API used by Symstudio the API of SymbOS, too ? So with Symstudio somebody calls SymbOS APIs directly, or has Symstudio its own API to its own library ?
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Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #114 on: 2014.November.04. 01:05:58 »
Quote
It is not fully true!

10MHz working with standard Z80, just replace the old Z80A with a new one which are produced for 10MHz (Z84C0010PEG)

It is a another project for a Z180. (And the final goal a switchable Z80/Z180 turbo system :-) )

And what about that suggested eZ80 thingy ? Why don't you use that ? On the wiki that seems ultra fast and compatible (for me :)) ...
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #115 on: 2014.November.04. 01:15:38 »
And what about that suggested eZ80 thingy ?
Can not used because it is have own I/O ports which are conflict with the existing I/O port in the Enterprise. It is also true for Z380. Only Z180 can be placed to Enterprise (which are promised to the next Enterprise model more than 25 years ago...)

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #116 on: 2014.November.04. 01:21:09 »
Quote
Can not used because it is have own I/O ports which are conflict with the existing I/O port in the Enterprise. It is also true for Z380. Only Z180 can be placed to Enterprise (which are promised to the next Enterprise model more than 25 years ago...)

I was afraid of such kind of thing like this ...

So (how you read) Z180 is knocked out by the undocumented instructions of the SymbOS, too ...

What remains is the 10MHz "normal" Z80, did I understand well ? Have we a 10 MHz solution already with undocumented instruction set working ?
« Last Edit: 2014.November.04. 01:28:34 by Z80System »
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Offline Zozosoft

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #117 on: 2014.November.04. 01:36:17 »
So (how you read) Z180 is knocked out by the undocumented instructions of the SymbOS, too ...
Yes :-(
But will be great for the normal EXOS/BASIC/EXDOS system, as Bruce say: don't used anything undocumented in IS programs for the maximal compatibility.
And you can write new super fast 50FPS game for this system :-)


Quote
Have we a 10 MHz solution already with undocumented instruction set working ?
Yes.
You don't see it?

In this topic the detailed instructions.

Offline Trebmint

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #118 on: 2014.November.04. 01:38:37 »
That looks very cool on the videos,
but unfortunately the Symstudio's webpage does not work for me ...

Anyway ... Is the API used by Symstudio the API of SymbOS, too ? So with Symstudio somebody calls SymbOS APIs directly, or has Symstudio its own API to its own library ?
No the website has been gone for some years. It hopefully will be back with a redesign of the symbos site very soon. And yes it 100% uses the Symbos API's where it can, but also has its own library of what I call SymBasic. Apps written in Symbasic are pretty quick. Not as quick as pure z80, but logic & loops etc are 5-10x faster than you'd get from a normal 8bit basic interpreter. I'm pretty confident that the final version will be as quick if not quicker than any C compiler you know on a z80. But you can mix and match between symbsic and Assembler anyway if you need 100% speed. And considering that the symbos API does most of the work the speed difference isnt that noticable anyway.
Currently any app created in Symbasic will carry the Basic code inside the app, meaning that a simple Hello world will be around 13k in size. I am working on a new compile system which actually only includes the used commands/functions and that with the highly optimized compiler will see that come down to around 4k for a simple App.
There actually is a version of C

Offline Z80System

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Re: SymbOS
« Reply #119 on: 2014.November.04. 01:54:32 »
I suggest a link to the EP scene at the date: 31. Oktober 2014 :) :

http://www.symbos.de/news.htm

I think it is official ...
« Last Edit: 2014.November.04. 02:02:54 by Z80System »
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