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Author Topic: Sell ​​Exos 2.4? (Read 1317 times)

Offline Tutus

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Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« on: 2020.October.23. 13:40:10 »
We found Wolfgang's ad on Ebay ...
Memory expander for sale okay! But EXOS 2.4, which is a Zozosoft product, should no longer be sold! This is unethical, however we look. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #1 on: 2020.October.23. 15:09:56 »
I am sorry if I did something wrong. I was not aware that I am not allowed to sell it with my computer?
Can you please point me to the information about this?
Does this mean you have to take out the EXOS when you sell your computer? I am utterly confused and sorry for any problem that I might have caused.


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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #2 on: 2020.October.23. 15:42:04 »
I think that the distribution of the Rom is for free, it can be downloaded from this web even if not being a member.(And at the end it is based on the stock Enterprise Rom...)

Other thing is to benefit from others work, and I think that in this case Wolfgang is not profiting from the software, only from the installation of the software. The EP64 he sells is a complete product, I think it is correct that he announces those enhancements the computer has inside.

And if he doesn't sell for a fair price one of the three Enterprises he has then he can't buy one with the fixed nick....

He on the other hand, is a contributor to the EP scene, he has released completely free his Ram expansion design.

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #3 on: 2020.October.23. 16:50:02 »
Still thinking.... May be a proportional compensation to Zozo for his work would be to mention him in the Ebay announce. Also a link to this wonderful web could bring more Enterprise members.

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #4 on: 2020.October.23. 17:05:59 »
Still thinking.... May be a proportional compensation to Zozo for his work would be to mention him in the Ebay announce. Also a link to this wonderful web could bring more Enterprise members.

afaik ebay does not allow external links. I am also not allowed to alter the text, but I could mention Zozosoft as an additional comment. But I will not do anything like this without his consent.
I am willing to pay Zozo for the EXOS rom to compensate him. I just wished somebody would have told me this personally instead of calling me unethical in public, so that I can repair any damage that I might have caused unintentionally.  :(

Offline Judge

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #5 on: 2020.October.23. 17:44:56 »
In my opinion, you would only have had the right to sell the product along with the original rom. If you want to sell it with EXOS 2.4 you should have asked Zozo.
This is a matter of principle. Only he can give permission.
Üdv.Judge

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #6 on: 2020.October.23. 21:45:37 »
And Zozo will probably agree.

Please, don't make a world of the case. I my opinion Wolfgang has not been aware of making nothing bad. Better wait for Zozo, if he wants to say something contrary.

I myself have humbly contributed in translating some Roms and developed(more or less..) the mouse driver. What I have made is for free, because I was enjoying it while in the making.

There is only one thing unacceptable for  a creator.... the claim of the authorship by another person.... And that has not happened.
« Last Edit: 2020.October.23. 21:59:12 by gflorez »

Offline Judge

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #7 on: 2020.October.24. 00:59:32 »
Please, don't make a world of the case.

Excuse me, I do not want to generate a debate on this here. :smt018  All we noted with Tutus was that it was appropriate to ask Zozo in advance.

I myself have humbly contributed in translating some Roms and developed(more or less..) the mouse driver. What I have made is for free, because I was enjoying it while in the making.

You control the fate of your own intellectual products as you wish, but you do not want to see anyone sell them without your statement.

I suggest that we do not continue the debate on this.
Üdv.Judge

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #8 on: 2020.October.24. 15:28:54 »
Excuse me, I do not want to generate a debate on this here. :smt018  All we noted with Tutus was that it was appropriate to ask Zozo in advance.

You control the fate of your own intellectual products as you wish, but you do not want to see anyone sell them without your statement.

I suggest that we do not continue the debate on this.

Sorry for contradicting you, but this is not quite what happened. If this was the intention, Tutus could have told me this instead of publicly humiliating me. But I guess we will not get to a point of agreeing on this.

I am very very frustrated about what happened here.

Here is my perspective on things and I hope you will at least try to understand me.
I am new to Enterprise and new to this forum and found many helpful tips here and enjoyed my time here so far.

At some point I read about EXOS2.4 and wanted to upgrade my machine. So I searched the web and found a description on how to do it is here:
http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Util/Exos.htm

Links to the ROMs are here http://ep128emu.sourceforge.net/manual.html

here https://github.com/istvan-v/ep128emu/blob/master/README

and here: https://github.com/istvan-v/ep128emu


When I decided to sell one of my EPs, it had the EXOS2.4 already built in.
I have not found any word about not being allowed to sell an upgraded machine if the ROM is included and also not received an answer to my question where I would be able to find information about this rule.
Does this mean that anything that gets released here has to get taken out of the computer when you decide to sell it?  I definetly don't expect that anybody who might use my RAM expansion has to take it out when they sell there machine.
But this is me and my thinking, Zozosoft might have a different opinion about this point. Unfortunately I did not know (or expect) it and I was not able to get any answer from him yet to my personal message.

If I offended his rules, I am very sorry about this and hope he will forgive me. I have just taken the ebay auction offline and will sell the computer without this ROM.

I still don't understand why I get publicly accused of being unethical and this bothers me a lot.
Integrity is of very high value to me, since it is all that we have in the end.
What is left of my life is to short to spend nights without sleep asking myself what had happened.

I want to thank all the helpful people here and wish everybody to stay healthy in those difficult times!
I will move on from here to find some peace.

Goodbye,
Wolfgang

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #9 on: 2020.October.24. 16:09:19 »
And this is the result of being so strict with other's free work, people get discouraged of computing, persons that have given so much to the Enterprise scene probably will never return.

Of course..... I will continue entering here, asking, answering, collaborating. I am here to make friends, those who like to be friendly.
« Last Edit: 2020.October.24. 17:14:12 by gflorez »

Offline Judge

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #10 on: 2020.October.24. 16:11:54 »
I'm absolutely sure no one wanted to humiliate you here.
They just drew your attention to the fact that there are certain unwritten rules that are appropriate to follow.
I think he should have just notified Zozo in a private message before the auction.
Finally, if I had violated it (though I had no intention) I apologize. Peace...
Üdv.Judge

Offline Tutus

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #11 on: 2020.October.24. 19:35:24 »
I don't think I humiliated you. If you feel sorry, I apologize!
The point, I think, is that EXOS as well as EXOS 2.4 (which is a Zozo product) have been free since the English company was long gone. So far, I haven't seen anyone who listed this at a machine sale. Okay, you're new or you couldn't know here.

Offline NoP

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #12 on: 2020.October.30. 21:10:13 »
IMHO if Wolfgang was really just selling ONE computer with EXOS 2.4, then this is a wild overreaction. Especially if he contributed to the community. :(

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #13 on: 2020.October.30. 21:59:42 »
I don't have any problem with selling a machine with EXOS 2.4!
I think the right mention is: "onboard ROM upgraded to EXOS 2.4, which is a modified version by Zozosoft. It includes bugfixes, quick memory test, and also the BASIC ROM, no cartridge needed."
Or something similar :-)

EXOS and BASIC still remain product of Intelligent Software*, my part is the quick memory test, and the bug fixes.

*I think the abandonware is the right category. Anyway an old Hungarian article says the Enterprise Computers GmbH got all rights after the UK companies had collapsed. And few years ago, Werner Lindner (who was the technical director of the Enterprise Computers GmbH) says there's no problem about publishing, using, modifying any official Enterprise software, just don't remove any original copyright notices, and of course non commercial usage.

So I think it's no problem selling a machine with EXOS 2.4.
If anyone put a standalone EXOS 2.4 ROM to Ebay, it would be more problematic...

When it's me who am asked, I just calculate ROM chip, programming, shipping costs, the software is free.
« Last Edit: 2020.October.31. 09:25:25 by szipucsu »

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Sell ​​Exos 2.4?
« Reply #14 on: 2020.October.31. 17:55:59 »
Thank you for clarifying the situation and explaining how to do this correctly. I hope this helps to prevent ugly situations for others in the future.

I'd like to tell my accusers that I understand that selling the intellectual property of others is not okay. I think we are very much on the same page about this point. I just didn't feel this was the case here.

If a similar situation occurs in the future, I hope people will talk and give each other the benefit of the doubt. After all, this is our hobby and should be fun. :smt041