Enterprise Forever

:UK => Other topics => Topic started by: Tech on 2020.January.12. 01:46:12

Title: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.12. 01:46:12
I've an Arabic E64 and would like to know if there is a keyboard short-cut to switch between English and Arabic while entering texting?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 14:48:55
There is no Arabic.Rom, sorry. The only "official" language Rom was the BRD.Rom(German), and from that the users made the others. You have some of them on the emulator: HUN.Rom, ESP.Rom and derivates.

If you want to create your own rom for some language I can give you some tips.  But unless you are an expert on the Arabic language, It can be a very hard work.

It seems that the Arabic Enterprise models where only used as typewriter keyboards.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.12. 15:18:21
There is no Arabic.Rom, sorry. The only "official" language Rom was the BRD.Rom(German), and from that the users made the others. You have some of them on the emulator: HUN.Rom, ESP.Rom and derivates.
I have a real English/Arabic E64 computer, hardware not emulator. I can type in the word processor using English letters. I'm asking how can I switch the input language into Arabic?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 15:23:36
I know, but there is nothing Arabic on that unit, it is a UK 64 model with Arabic letters printed on the keys. Nothing more, sorry


The BRD.Rom addition was a lucky event forced by language restrictive laws on Germany just at the Enterprise launching times.

The German language was fitted as a 16KB rom on a special Basic cartridge with 2 Rom sockets instead of only one.

(http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Hardware/Pic/Cartridge_2x16K.jpg)

The good point about this approach was that the main differences between the German and the Uk units was the cartridge and the keyboard keys. The rest of the computer, including the main PCB remained without changes. In fact, a UK unit with a German cartridge behaves very German....

The German Rom changes the keys positions and some symbols, and almost all messages are translated. Also other graphics-printer oriented apps where added to the spare space to fill the 16KB Rom: VDUMP, VLOAD AND VSAVE.

The switching of the 2 languages is made with the :UK and :BRD commands.

The new commands can be seen when typing :HELP +Enter in Basic.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: tofro on 2020.January.12. 15:30:33
The BRD.Rom addition was a lucky event forced by language restrictive laws on Germany just at the Enterprise launching times.

I'm pretty sure that's an urban legend - I can't remember anything that would have forced computer manufacturers to produce German keyboards or ROMs (other than Germany being an attractive market back then).

Tobias
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.12. 15:36:18
I know, but there is nothing Arabic on that unit, it is a UK 64 model with Arabic letters printed on the keys. Nothing more, sorry
Really! So, why they bothered with making Arabic keyboard in the first place when they didn't plan to implement the software for it?! Very strange!

Thank you so much for your input.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 15:43:42
There are other proofs of these laws, they where no legends. For example, some German models have a paper sticker over the ENTERPRISE, ONE TWO EIGHT one, saying ENTERPRISE and "128K" on big numbers.

Here on Spain there where similar laws on that era.

(https://www.zock.com/8-Bit/Enterprise128.JPG)
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 15:48:09
I have said you, the Arabic models where sold to Egypt as mere typewriter keyboards.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 16:10:00
Here (https://enterpriseforever.com/hall-of-fame/qa-with-werner-lindner-technical-director-of-the-enterprise-computers-gmbh/msg45483/#msg45483) you can read more about it.


Quote from: Werner Lindner(Former director of Enterprise Computers GMB):
"Egypt:
The Egypt importer was Computer Technical Co. in Cairo. The founder and M.D. was Mr. Nabil Lashine. He had already bought about 500 ENTERPRISE 64k machines from England. He imported them to Egypt and sold them as electronic typewriters to other companies. He was not interested in games or other ancillaries, because he couldn't sell them (nobody in Egypt could afford a home computer for private purposes at that time). He made his own software for the computer and did the green keyboard print by himself. He bought additional 64k machines from us, but there was only appr. one shipment per year and not more than 150 machines (25 boxes á 6 computers). He also got appr. 500 empty cartridges from us. He always payed with monthly cheques. Sometimes it took long to get the money, but he was very reliable. His last order was in 1993, last contact to him in 1994. At this time his company was in big trouble and his bank had the hands on his remaining stock of EC machines. I've never heard of him afterwards, but I still have a complete set of printed keys, that he gave me while he was visiting us in Munich. All in all I think that 4000 units is too much - I personally know only about 1500 units, incl. the machines from England (but maybe Latchu has sold something to him directly)."
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.12. 16:27:42
I see now. So it was not an offical language. The Egyptian importer "Arabized" the keyboard to be compatible with the program he was selling.

Thank you for clarifying this issue.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Zozosoft on 2020.January.12. 16:37:57
Probably a loadable Arabic character set existed, but unfortunately there is no known piece of it.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 17:17:26
To make an Arabic character set is not a difficult task, redefining every character with a Basic listing.

I used that method on the eighties, a Basic listing modified some character and keys to Spanish characters, and the printer to the Spanish character set. Then, I only have to enter to :WP and start to edit text and print.

If you redefine all the character set to Arabic then it will be difficult to interact with the computer. But it can be a funny task....

You will have some limitations, on 40 columns the characters can be 8x9 pixels widexheigth, but on 80 columns you only have 6 pixels wide x 9 high.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: BruceTanner on 2020.January.12. 17:36:38
But making the Arabic characters type right-to-left would be a bit more of a challenge!
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Zozosoft on 2020.January.12. 19:05:42
But making the Arabic characters type right-to-left would be a bit more of a challenge!
A hacked VIDEO: device is needed.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: szipucsu on 2020.January.12. 20:31:04
A hacked VIDEO: device is needed.
Or the monitor has to be turned upside down. :D
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.12. 21:34:45
A hacked VIDEO: device is needed.


I think it is more an EDITOR: task.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.14. 00:54:12
To make an Arabic character set is not a difficult task, redefining every character with a Basic listing.
Hmm, any documents about this "Basic listing" please? I'd like to try with some characters and see.
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: Tech on 2020.January.14. 00:58:13
But making the Arabic characters type right-to-left would be a bit more of a challenge!
In addition to this RtL, Arabic characters change their shapes based on their positions in words. For example, a character such as م can be at least written in 4 different shapes (isolated, initial, middle & end)!
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: tofro on 2020.January.14. 08:53:39
In addition to this RtL, Arabic characters change their shapes based on their positions in words. For example, a character such as م can be at least written in 4 different shapes (isolated, initial, middle & end)!
Arabic is indeed a complicated language. Proper Arabic support on modern computer also needs to support diacritics, where characters change their shape according to their neighbors (that was apparently what you meant).
The Sinclair ZX Spectrum actually was available with an Arabic ROM as well, supporting RTL writing, but no diacritics. It's fun to at least try that out in an Emulator (Right-toLeft BASIC programs do look weird!). The ROMs are available from WoS.

Tobias
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: BruceTanner on 2020.January.14. 09:28:00
Am I correct in thinking that although the letters/words are written right-to-left, numbers are written left-to-right?
Title: Re: Switching Between Keyboard Languages?
Post by: gflorez on 2020.January.14. 09:30:18
Hmm, any documents about this "Basic listing" please? I'd like to try with some characters and see.


On page 105 of the Basic manual (http://enterprise.iko.hu/books/EnterpriseProgrammingGuide.pdf) you can read how. On the easy example made with binary numbers you can see that the 0s will be seen as paper, and the 1s as ink on every of the 9 lines of every character. Avoid using the outer bits on every line, 0 and 7, because on the TEXT80 mode they are used to represent colours and will not be seen.

You can use only one line to define a character, without DATA and READ statements:

Try on immediate mode:    SET CHARACTER 142,126,66,66,66,66,66,66,66,126          Then press ENTER.

(There are other 2 methods to define characters. With a Scape sequence written to the text channel, usually #102: ESC, K, n, r1, r2, r3, r4, r5, r6, r7, r8, r9. And the other, writing directly to the memory positions  B480h...B8FFh on segment FFh.)

Remember that the definitions will remain only until the next hard reset or the CLEAR FONT direct command being executed.

The "definable" characters are 128, from 32 to 159. If you try to define over 159 then you will be defining again on the lower numbers and if under 32 you will be defining a higher number. For example 160=>32, and 0=>128. The cursor you see on the Basic editor is defined on character 142.

Try your redefined characters executing something like this on immediate mode:

PRINT CHR$(XXX)        and then the ENTER key.

Or print all the set with:

10 FOR A=32 TO 159
20 PRINT A,CHR$(A)
30 NEXT