Enterprise Forever
:UK => Other topics => Topic started by: edoz on 2014.November.14. 17:59:15
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On the whole I would assume that's because the CPC is a closed system in that the sound, graphics, fdc are the same on everyone. that's not the case with the 4000 differernt models of MSX. Its impossible to embed something that isnt standard
4000 ;) .. no .. not that much ;) but these movies are nice to see :D .. sorry bit of topic ;)
MSX 1 Models (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Ys5ocqiTw)
MSX 2 Models (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwhFs9osMPw)
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MSX 1 Models
MSX 2 Models
Okay ... they are not 4000, it' true ... they are many ... :)
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Ok, let's start MSX topic :-)
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Very interesting, in Hungary the MSX near to totally unknow in the 8 bit era.
I (and I think the most of Enterprise users) only read "MSX" at the EXDOS and ISDOS manual where some functions marked as MSX compatible.
Many years later at the internet time searched at the net: what is this mystic MSX :-)
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I (and I think the most of Enterprise users) only read "MSX" at the EXDOS and ISDOS manual where some functions marked as MSX compatible.
Yes, I read it 1st time and until internet last time in EXDOS manual about MSX :D
But most of us heard about CPC 1st time at the end of 90's, and we recognized that nearly all of Enterprise offical softwares are converted CPC softwares (which are not official spectrum conversions with some extra's)
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Very interesting, in Hungary the MSX near to totally unknow in the 8 bit era.
I (and I think the most of Enterprise users) only read "MSX" at the EXDOS and ISDOS manual where some functions marked as MSX compatible.
It was pretty rare in the UK too at the time we were developing EXDOS, but it was becoming big in Japan and it seemed it might in the UK too, especially as it had Microsoft's backing (the IBM PC and MS-DOS was becoming big in the business world). I think they were too expensive initially.
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It was pretty rare in the UK too at the time we were developing EXDOS, but it was becoming big in Japan and it seemed it might in the UK too, especially as it had Microsoft's backing (the IBM PC and MS-DOS was becoming big in the business world). I think they were too expensive initially.
But you followed MSX standards for EP floppy, which was the best decision I think. Do you remember for the reason?
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But you followed MSX standards for EP floppy, which was the best decision I think. Do you remember for the reason?
It was more following the IBM PC format for floppies and MSX also happened to follow it. But we did add boot sector tweeks to try and make the Enterrise as compatible with as many systems as possible who also started using this format eg. Apricot.
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Prodatron missed the MSX of my collection.
Now I have one :-)
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Very nice machine! One of my favorites!!!
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And the story of this machine: the seller working at electronic waste collecting company, and he saved it from the electronic garbage!
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And the story of this machine: the seller working at electronic waste collecting company, and he saved it from the electronic garbage!
That is crazy! Does the floppy drive still works ? As it is the same file format as on the Enterprise you could try it out :D
In basic the commands are:
files
files "a:*.*"
files "b:*.bas"
copy "a:file.ext"to"b:"
load "a:filename.bas"
run "a:filename.bas"
To format a floppy you simply do:
call format
or
_format
if you have msxdos.sys and command.com on a floppy it will boot MSX-DOS 1
Then the commands like MS-DOS.
dir
copy a: *.* b:
if you type 'basic' in msxdos you go to the basic prompt. If you type 'call system' you get back to MSX-DOS1
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Yes, both drive working :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
Thanks for your help! SymbOS successfully loaded :-)
Can you suggest some games and demos for viewing first?
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Ah, MSX-Computers, i love that system :D
Congrats Zozo for the NMS8280. It's a really nice system with the possibility to upgrade it to the MSX2+ standard.
Because of games: You should try some japanese shooters like Space Manbow. This game supports MSX2 and MSX2+.
The problem with MSX1 machines was the missing hardware scrolling. So games like Nemesis, Parodius and other horizontal scrolling games are not really looking good on MSX systems.
If you want to go further with the system you can connect the HxC floppy emulator. Also there is a great flash cartridge that you can get from france, the URL is http://www.msxcartridgeshop.com (http://www.msxcartridgeshop.com). And the most informations about the MSX systems you can get at http://www.msx.org (http://www.msx.org)
Personally i have one MSX1-system (National FS-4000, a japanese computer with internal thermo printer), a Philips NMS8280 and a Panasonic A1-FX MSX2+. Also a MiST-FPGA computer with an MSX-core :)
The MSX is a fine system, but it's nearly impossible to collect all variations of MSX-computers or MSX Software ;)
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the NMS8280. It's a really nice system with the possibility to upgrade it to the MSX2+ standard.
How it is possible?
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Here is a description:
http://msx.hansotten.com/index.php?page=msx-2-upgrades (http://msx.hansotten.com/index.php?page=msx-2-upgrades)
You need a new graphics chip and some standard components. You can get the new graphics chip e.g. at eBay.
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Is there anyone here familiar with MSX hardware? Since MSX was quite unknown here in Hungary, it's only recently I try to collect information about it, just for fun. I read about the memory paging of MSX, it seems a single byte register (0xA8), with two bits for every of the four 16K "slices" of the 64K address space of the Z80. Nice enough, however this is the point, when I feel lost. On MSX2 it seems there is another, quite Enterprise-128-like solution, ie mapping with four registers, with I/O ports 0xFC,FD,FE,FF (it's similar to EP128, just there it's 0xB0, B1, B2 and B3 ports). Now, my problem: as MSX2 is said to be compatible with MSX, who this new paging scheme is related to the old one, which only known about two bits per 16K slice? It seems there topics are always discussed separately (I tried to find information on the web), but I don't understand how those things related (well I even don't dare to mention too much the "sub slot" [?] topic, but it's another question). If someone can suggest a document about this topic or simply an explanation here, I would be quite happy :) Thanks!
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Have a look here:
http://problemkaputt.de/portar.htm#memory (http://problemkaputt.de/portar.htm#memory)
MSX computers even have a layer above the usual flexible memory mapping known from EP, PCW, NCxxx etc.
First you select...
- a "primary slot" with port #A8
- or even a "secondary slot" (also called sub-slot) at ram address #ffff
...for every of the four 16K page within the 64K visible RAM area.
Selecting the secondary slot is a little bit weird, as you always have to map the primary slot to #c000-#ffff to be able to select its subslots.
Why "slots"? The MSX has 2 external "expansion ports" (like catridges for game consoles) (and 2 internal ones), and each expansion port can be extended by 4 sub-expansion ports. These are the slots/sub-slots.
A memory expansion is placed inside such a (sub)slot. Let's say you have your memory expansion placed in slot 2, subslot 3. If you want to make it visible for the whole 64K you select slot 2, subslot 3 for each of the four 16K pages.
Now you can use port #FC-#FF for selecting the correct 16K page of the memory expansion for each visible 16K page, as #fc-#ff is always the port where the memory expansion of the current slot can be addressed.
In theory this makes it possible to have 4x4x256x16KB of RAM (=64MB) in the MSX :D Slots 0+1 are usually occupied by internal roms etc, so the maximum would be 32MB in practice.
Hope this helped a little bit?
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Hope this helped a little bit?
Yes, thanks. It seems to be a bit strange, but I can imagine it's because of backward compatibility (on MSX2, with MSX) and similar things.
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Yes, thanks. It seems to be a bit strange, but I can imagine it's because of backward compatibility (on MSX2, with MSX) and similar things.
Even the MSX1 is already able to handle the whole slot system (as subslots are handled by the expansion hardware AFAIK). In theory it would be possible to have an MSX1 running SymbOS with the G9K graphic card and 1MB ram. We never tried it, and the loader will stop when detecting only an MSX1, but it should work.
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Even the MSX1 is already able to handle the whole slot system (as subslots are handled by the expansion hardware AFAIK). In theory it would be possible to have an MSX1 running SymbOS with the G9K graphic card and 1MB ram. We never tried it, and the loader will stop when detecting only an MSX1, but it should work.
Aha, I see. But even the FC-FF ports are there on MSX 1 too then? Or there you can "only" use this primary/secondary slot system? Or hmm, I should learn more about the exact differences between MSX and MSX2 (and 2+ ...). One thing that I know is the video chip. And I had the suspect that this FC-FF "Enterprise - like" memory paging is an MSX2 specific stuff.
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I got a "MSX SD Mapper/Megaram 512K" cartridge for my MSX.
It is possible use it for SymbOS? (SDcard and memory expansion)
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Are you speaking about this one?
https://www.msx.org/news/en/megaflashrom-scc-sd
If yes, it is possible :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ9bBPxA6DE
(starting at 3:33)
There is a driver for the SD reader, and the SymbOS installer will autodetect it (you will see it in the video).
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Are you speaking about this one?
No, it is another: originaly developed by Fabio Belavenuto, it is open source then now it is produced by various manufacturers.
But I'm not sure about compatibility. If anything say is a "Megaram", then all functionaly compatible? And also for SD interface.
(This is not have a "megarom", but the SRAM can be used for ROM simulation, instead RAM expansion mode)
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No, it is another: originaly developed by Fabio Belavenuto, it is open source then now it is produced by various manufacturers.
But I'm not sure about compatibility. If anything say is a "Megaram", then all functionaly compatible? And also for SD interface.
(This is not have a "megarom", but the SRAM can be used for ROM simulation, instead RAM expansion mode)
Can you post a picture here? And if you plug it in does it boot MSXDOS? Is there a message during boot?
I'm not sure which device this is..
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Ok, I watched some Youtube videos about it, it seems to be something different.
Wow, now I even found the Github project:
https://github.com/fbelavenuto/msxsdmapper/
and it seems, that he already made a SymbOS driver :)
https://github.com/fbelavenuto/msxsdmapper/tree/master/Symbos
I will have a look at it...
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and it seems, that he already made a SymbOS driver :)
https://github.com/fbelavenuto/msxsdmapper/tree/master/Symbos
Hm, unfortunately there is only the original code for the Sunrise IDE interface :(
But with this code...
https://github.com/fbelavenuto/msxsdmapper/blob/master/Driver/driver.asm
...it should be possible to make a SymbOS driver as well.
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Can you post a picture here? And if you plug it in does it boot MSXDOS? Is there a message during boot?
I'm not sure which device this is..
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
The SDcard(s) will be a A: (and B:) drive, floppy drives renamed to B:/C: (or C:/D: if two SD cards used).
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MSX-DOS has similar easter egg, like at Enterprise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtOHc3umVb0
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Hi
Speaking of MSX computers. At about the same time as the EP128 there was a particular MSX1 model, that actually had many of the same specs as the EP128. The Spectravideo 738 had 40/80 character display and assorted graphics modes (only one mode available at any time though). It had a 3 1/2" diskette drive, parallel port, serial port, 2 joystick ports, expansion port, it could do bank switching - and it ran CP/M 2.2. I bought several CP/M based programs for it then like the WordStar package (text, spreadsheet and db) as well as a Hisoft Z80 assembler. The nice thing is that these programs run happily on the Enterprise too as CP/M porgrams, and I currently use the Hisoft package for my assembler coding needs.
The SVI-738 was a kind of hydrid between MSX1 and MSX2, and for this reason it is possible to upgrade it to MSX2 standards. I have kept mine in the original form, since MSX2 machines can be emulated very well and I don't have docs for them anyway.