Enterprise Forever
:UK => Other topics => Topic started by: ssr86 on 2015.October.10. 09:55:30
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Looking at this years CPCGameDev, I've been thinking that maybe we could organize a similar competition for the Enterprise128... If a party like the one in May would take place in the next year then we could make that the deadline and place of announcing the results.
The key would be to raise a "decent" sum of "motivation money";p so that the participants would be rewarded for their time and effort... (I doubt we could get some "outside" sponsors...)
If we could rise some more money then we could do more categories - like democompo or a seperate one for ports of existing z80 games. Also there could be a graphics compo I guess... Because of lack of tools a musiccompo would not be a good idea (we would see more or less ay conversions only...)...
There would be some more than a half a year of time... So people could learn the characteristics of the machine and programming for it... We could invite people from spectrum, amstrad and msx communities (they could even just enter with ports of some of their productions for their main machines)...
I think that Ep128 is an especially graceful machine for demos...
I think a good "motto" for such a venture would be "Remember the fallen" (at least I like the sound of that;p) or "Don't forget the fallen" - you know what I mean...
So... what say you? Would it be worthwhile?
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I think it is a great idea, and good idea also to involve other programmers from other platforms. :) I do not know if we could have any sponsors, but for example I can offer small amount of money to the budget (approx 100 Euro)
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Thank you geco. I should be able to get away with 250euros for this purpose.
After two days I thought that no one would reply...
Although there doesn't seem to be much interest and enthusiasm...:(
Waiting for some more opinions about the idea before we all could discuss some details (of course if we decide to push it)
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I have la lot of enthusiasm but little idea of how to program a game... Is for that I've not reply.
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Same problem for me :-(
I'm can only make programs what you don't see and don't hear it :oops: (system programs :-) )
For make a game or demo not enough the programming knowledge also needed a lot of creativity and artistic!
If possible to invite developers from other Z80 platforms will be great! For a first step release their works also for Enterprise. Later when know more about the Enterprise then make something which is use more of the Enterprise capatibilities.
For a price I also can offer some money.
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I can build hardware, but not a game to write :)
Besides I'm writing programs at work. How many can you? ;)
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you will have better luck with a "convert specy games" contest :)
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For make a game or demo not enough the programming knowledge also needed a lot of creativity and artistic!
As for the games the rules IMO should be very "loose" and allow the use of any graphics and musics you find (this won't be commercial products). As for ports one has spectrum, amstrad, msx and (?) gameboy games to choose from.
If possible to invite developers from other Z80 platforms will be great! For a first step release their works also for Enterprise. Later when know more about the Enterprise then make something which is use more of the Enterprise capatibilities.
Yeah, I hope a lot that "they" would want to join...
you will have better luck with a "convert specy games" contest :)
But then maybe some "restriction" (or just a request) should be added so that the conversions won't be perfectly 1-1 and use some ep128 unique features (like maybe some more colors and resolution;P)....
Gameboy ports would be fun but I guess they would be harder to do beacuse of hardware sprites and not 100% compatible cpus.
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maybe it can work with small targets
for example 10 lines basic game or 256 byte demo (I love 256 byte demos on pc)
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256 byte demo (I love 256 byte demos on pc)
It is more hard on Enterprise, because need to setup the memory and LPT, which is need many bytes.
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It is more hard on Enterprise, because need to setup the memory and LPT, which is need many bytes.
we can open a graphics window via exos
pc demos uses like this as I remember (I wrote some 256byte demos)
and an lpt can be short
and dont need to be very compatible :)
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Same problem for me :-(
I'm can only make programs what you don't see and don't hear it :oops: (system programs :-) )
For make a game or demo not enough the programming knowledge also needed a lot of creativity and artistic!
If possible to invite developers from other Z80 platforms will be great! For a first step release their works also for Enterprise. Later when know more about the Enterprise then make something which is use more of the Enterprise capatibilities.
For a price I also can offer some money.
Conversions can be done also, ex we would have 2-3 category, and one of them could be conversion.
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we can open a graphics window via exos
pc demos uses like this as I remember (I wrote some 256byte demos)
and an lpt can be short
and dont need to be very compatible :)
I was thinking yesterday on a 256byte, or 1k game, and I think Flappy bird can be done in this size.
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I think developing could be more interesting and successful together. But, e.g. Endi, Geco and Zozosoft are able to create own programs without any help. But I'm not. I am only familiar with the basic, but not so much.
If we unify our forces, most of us to write a program together it would be the best.
Anyway, it is not a bad idea.
But, how could people of other platforms learn how to use EP and create program for the competition?
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I think, basic game/program could we written also for this happening.
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I think, basic game/program could we written also for this happening.
I write a game, Ferro makes it faster, Endi converts it into multicolor screen. :D
Can Zzzip be used too?
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I write a game, Ferro makes it faster, Endi converts it into multicolor screen. :D
Can Zzzip be used too?
Why not? :)
I think this compo idea by SSR86 for involving as much people as possible to do interesting things to EP, please correct me SSR86 if i have wrong.
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But, how could people of other platforms learn how to use EP and create program for the competition?
Although I haven't done any conversions myself (only moved my code from cpc to ep but that was at rather early stage), I think that converting one's own game (meaning having the source code) from cpc or speccy to ep requires much less work then one thinks... I mean - you have your source which you can reuse nearly completely. Changes would be needed in graphic and sound routines. Then eventual touch-ups... And enterprise can "emulate" their graphic modes. I don't know much about msx but I think that ep's attribute mode should be able to emulate the one from that machine... however no sprites on ep...
Why not? :)
I think this compo idea by SSR86 for involving as much people as possible to do interesting things to EP, please correct me SSR86 if i have wrong.
Yeah, that's right:oops:
Enterprise is a great machine but very little known.
I got to know about the machine only one and a half year ago through cpcwiki forum. Never heard of it before.
The community is a very small one. This means only few programmers, even fewer graphicians and musicians. So I thought that such a competition (with valuable prizes, loose rules and long time), could expand the community.
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I'm thinking about a very simple game made for the EGI environment, playing with mouse clicks on big icons.
Surely it wouldn't be the winner...
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Although I haven't done any conversions myself (only moved my code from cpc to ep but that was at rather early stage), I think that converting one's own game (meaning having the source code) from cpc or speccy to ep requires much less work then one thinks... I mean - you have your source which you can reuse nearly completely. Changes would be needed in graphic and sound routines. Then eventual touch-ups... And enterprise can "emulate" their graphic modes. I don't know much about msx but I think that ep's attribute mode should be able to emulate the one from that machine... however no sprites on ep...
You are right, within some days the programmer can modify her/his source code to run the program on Enterprise there are exceptions, which are using hardware specialities of other platform, eg Star Sabre on CPC, it could take more time, but within 2 weeks-1 month the conversion is possible.
Unfortunately MSX screen can not be emulated by Nick, it is a mixture of attribute mode and character mode ( I faced with it during conversion of Traffic), there is a bitmap memory, and color memory, and there is character map , where you can assing 8bytes (characters) from bitmap memory and color memory.
Yeah, that's right:oops:
Enterprise is a great machine but very little known.
I got to know about the machine only one and a half year ago through cpcwiki forum. Never heard of it before.
The community is a very small one. This means only few programmers, even fewer graphicians and musicians. So I thought that such a competition (with valuable prizes, loose rules and long time), could expand the community.
It is similar from our side, we heard about CPC 1st time at the end of 20th century :)
I think this is a great idea to make this "competition" involving a lot of programmers from other platforms.
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Ok, so if we want to do this then we should make some rules and other stuff...
So here are some loose thoughts and questions...:
1. Will we be choosing a jury or start week-long polls (one for each category) through which people would vote?
If polls then every user would give a note (a number 0-10) to every production. The sum of gathered points decides the place.
2. The entries don't need to be finished. They can be playable demos of soon to be finished products.
3. You can use music and graphics taken from existing games but you have to credit the author/source.
4. No limit to number of entries per person.
5. We have to decide the deadline, the day of presentation and the day of announcement of results. I think that one of them should be the Enterprise birthday...
6. We need to choose a person whom paypal account will be used for gathering the funds. If nobody will want to take the part then that person can be me.
7. People will be able to donate untill a week or two before the deadline, so we can announce the categories and prizes. Although some categories could be canceled if not enough entries. If categories get cancelled then all already submitted entries got to the wild category.
8. The categories will be decided later as it will depend on submited entries and gathered funds.
9. For a compo to be valid, there need to be at least 4 authors (?).
10. Deadline should be at least a week before presentation to prepare a page or presentation topics on the forum.
Or maybe each author should start himself a topic for his entry with some info, short clip, screens, credits etc...
Early WIP pages are encouraged but take in mind that these tend to produce pressure...
11. For graphics compo - the works can not be conversions or recolorings of existing works. You can use any graphic mode (or even come up with your own).
12. Maybe each donater should decide on distribution of his money between the categories? And decide after categories announcement...
Potential categories:
- original games
- game conversions
- graphics compo
- wild compo (entries that won't fit into other categories)
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I think your idea is good, possibly 3 item is enough for a category we do not need 4 author, ex 2 author with 3 item :)
For voting, we can include Enterpriseforever forum also, I would not be a money collector, i would just transfer my part :)
Other question how can we involve people from other platform? Address them on their forums?
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I think your idea is good, possibly 3 item is enough for a category we do not need 4 author, ex 2 author with 3 item :)
Ok
Other question how can we involve people from other platform? Address them on their forums?
Someone "skilled" should write a motivation/invitation speech and we will "market" the event on other forums. I have an account on cpcwiki and speccy.pl forums but that's about it what I can do.
We should try with spectrum (world of spectrum), amstrad and msx community, but maybe also contact other 8bit communities?
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OkSomeone "skilled" should write a motivation/invitation speech and we will "market" the event on other forums. I have an account on cpcwiki and speccy.pl forums but that's about it what I can do.
We should try with spectrum (world of spectrum), amstrad and msx community, but maybe also contact other 8bit communities?
CPC, Speccy, MSX are the biggest for z80 computers, I do not know if there are any other big communities.
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CPC, Speccy, MSX are the biggest for z80 computers, I do not know if there are any other big communities.
Well for z80 there's the "caltulator" community, there's also colecovision and sega mastersystem... But I thought about inviting the atari and c64 (mainly for graphics) but now I think that it would be too much...
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fist gameboys has z80 too
but I dont know is there any community of gameboy dev
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Well for z80 there's the "caltulator" community, there's also colecovision and sega mastersystem... But I thought about inviting the atari and c64 (mainly for graphics) but now I think that it would be too much...
I do not think it would be too much, I think the problem would be that very few people would join, because they should learn the capabilities of EP, but it would be good also, if some of them join, and make nics garphics.
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fist gameboys has z80 too
but I dont know is there any community of gameboy dev
No, it's not a Z80. Actually it's more like a 8080 with some additional features. Eg it mostly lacks what Z80 has over 8080, for example DD/FD prefixed instructions, IX IY registers. But to be interesting, it has some features, Z80 hasn't. Of course, a Z80 coder can code for gameboy more or less easier if they take attention to the differences. I think ...
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Are there any volunteers to write an invitation/motivational text? I'm not very good at expressing myself in my own language, so in English it's even worse.
I can be the person that gathers the funds. However the "funding" will begin after we determine some more details (rules) and make some arrangements (dedicated forum topic with the invitation, rules and state of funding, also start contacting other communities to see what the initial interest would appear to be).
16th may as the deadline (that is the ep anniversary, right?) seems to be ok - some more than half a year... should be enough.
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I spoke with Tutus, he will write invitation/motivational text, just he needs the details, I will send it to him if all details are in place :)
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I hope I will finish my new editor v.1.0, so everybody can use it for graphics, or for more :).
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I hope I will finish my new editor v.1.0, so everybody can use it for graphics, or for more :).
:smt041
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I spoke with Tutus, he will write invitation/motivational text, just he needs the details, I will send it to him if all details are in place :)
Ok, then all help with the details, please.
(I may be partly repeating myself below...)
"Official start": 1.11.2015 (the day we announce the competition and send info to other communities)
Deadline for submitting entries and donating: 9.05.2016
Each entry should contain a video clip, a few screenshots (one for menu and one for gameplay at least), credits and description.
One can use already existing music and graphics (also without the authors permission) but all should be properly credited with the author/source.
Day after the deadline we announce the number of entries in each category.
People who donated could then write to the collector how they want their donation distributed among the categories (in percentage), no contact means only for game categories and equal.
Then there could be time to prepare some presentation site or just forum topics for each submission...(with the submitted video clip, screenshots and description)...
Presentation and start of voting: 16.05.2016 (ep "birthday"? - so the new stuff gets released on an anniversary...)
"Presentation" means creating the entry forum topics or running the presentation site.
Official announcement of results: 23.05.2016
So about six months of time...
Confirmed categories:
- "original" games
- game conversions
There's no limit to entries per person...(?)
Existence of other categories depends on gathered funds and number of entries.
There must be minimum 3 entries for a category with at least 2 authors.
For example there could be a graphics competition (but maybe the level of the submitted graphics should also decide?).
If there will be a couple of entries that won't fit into any of the final categories then there can be a "wild" category where all such go...
Conversions should have some stuff added that makes use of enterprise-specific features...(Not sure about this actually)...
paypal account for donations: r.malkowski86@gmail.com (mine, but maybe someone else volunteers?)
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Then there could be time to prepare some presentation site or just forum topics for each submission...(with the submitted video clip, screenshots and description)...
Presentation and start of voting: 16.05.2016 (ep "birthday"? - so the new stuff gets released on an anniversary...)
"Presentation" means creating the entry forum topics or running the presentation site.
Official announcement of results: 23.05.2016
Confirmed categories:
- "original" games
- game conversions
There's no limit to entries per person...(?)
Existence of other categories depends on gathered funds and number of entries.
There must be minimum 3 entries for a category with at least 2 authors.
For example there could be a graphics competition (but maybe the level of the submitted graphics should also decide?).
If there will be a couple of entries that won't fit into any of the final categories then there can be a "wild" category where all such go...
Conversions should have some stuff added that makes use of enterprise-specific features...(Not sure about this actually)...
I think the forum is a good place for presentation of the programs ,we can create 1 topic with 4 subtopic (or more or less, depends on the existing categories.
If somebody do not want to register I can share one of my e-mail address, they can send their program to there, I will attach it to the forum, there can be one problem, the videos, what do you think if the videos are uploaded to youtube by everybody, and only the link is attached to the forum?
I like the date, we will see, if there is another oppinion :)
I think there is no need a limitation by person, I do not think that one person will enter more than 3-4 entry :)
I think we can start with all 4 categories what you mentioned.
Other oppinions and ideas? Anything is missing?
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Other opinions and ideas? Anything is missing?
Will all the submitted programs be accepted? If an only program is out of category, will it be accepted? This was not clear for me. If there aren't enough applicants for a certain category, will there be any problem?
I agree that one separate topic should be opened for this and sub-topics for the different categories.
Maybe the applicant himself could upload his program to the appropriate topic. It is maybe better than sending the programs to anyone who will upload them to the forum, isn't it?
Youtube is ok, I think!. If someone doesn't have a youtube account, they can ask another person to upload their video.
I agree that the program does not have to be entirely ready however it should be at least 80% ready.
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what about teamwork? I think it must be allowed
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what about teamwork? I think it must be allowed
I agree.
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Will all the submitted programs be accepted? If an only program is out of category, will it be accepted? This was not clear for me. If there aren't enough applicants for a certain category, will there be any problem?
The idea for such situation was to move such entries to the "wild" category.
I agree that one separate topic should be opened for this and sub-topics for the different categories.
Yeah, maybe it would be the easiest to put it all on the forum...
Maybe the applicant himself could upload his program to the appropriate topic. It is maybe better than sending the programs to anyone who will upload them to the forum, isn't it?
I thought that the best way would be that the participants send all the links/screens/programs/descrption/credits in the form how it should appear on the site/forum topic so all the works could be presented/published on the same day...
Or make the participants present their work on that one day but that wouldn't be a good idea.
I think that (if the presentations were to be in the form of a forum topic/post) the deadline could be prelonged that one week and that the entry should include all that stuff and info I mentioned earlier so it could be quicly put out even the next day.
Another thought would be to have a somewhat "liquid" deadline... What I mean is something like:
day X: people can start posting their enries and also the voting starts (each entry can be given a number 0-10 in the form of a poll but the results shouldn't be seen until one week later)
week after day X: official announcement of winners
And then that could be the "ep birthday" date...
Youtube is ok, I think!. If someone doesn't have a youtube account, they can ask another person to upload their video.
Youtube it shall be.
I agree that the program does not have to be entirely ready however it should be at least 80% ready.
I agree, but we would have to specify what it means for a program to be "80% ready".
I wrote in one of the earlier posts (?) that people could put out a "playable demo" if they won't have the entire thing ready in time. My idea of "playable demo" is when the main game engine is finished (?) but not all levels/extras are ready/implemented, so the author puts out his game with only one-two levels or not all game-modes, or without music etc.
what about teamwork? I think it must be allowed
I also agree and I haven't written that it shouldn't be allowed.
An "author" doesn't have to be a single person (although I must admit that my idea of author, as I was writing that post, was the main programmer as there's one programmer most of the time).
I guess it should be written down in the rules.
I think the forum is a good place for presentation of the programs ,we can create 1 topic with 4 subtopic (or more or less, depends on the existing categories.
If somebody do not want to register I can share one of my e-mail address, they can send their program to there, I will attach it to the forum, there can be one problem, the videos, what do you think if the videos are uploaded to youtube by everybody, and only the link is attached to the forum?
Yeah... that should be the best and easiest(?) solution.
I think there is no need a limitation by person, I do not think that one person will enter more than 3-4 entry :)
I think we can start with all 4 categories what you mentioned.
ok
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Another thought would be to have a somewhat "liquid" deadline... What I mean is something like:
day X: people can start posting their enries and also the voting starts (each entry can be given a number 0-10 in the form of a poll but the results shouldn't be seen until one week later)
week after day X: official announcement of winners
And then that could be the "ep birthday" date...
This idea is good, in this way the people have more time for voting, and more people can vote.
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The idea for such situation was to move such entries to the "wild" category.
What if just one program arrives to the wild category? Or more programs but from the same author?
Well, it is absolutely not sure, so we have time to think about that later.
I agree, but we would have to specify what it means for a program to be "80% ready".
It is a good question... But I am not sure it is good this way. The well designed levels or music can even make the game much better. Although you are right. If someone wants to do this way let him do.
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an idea: conversion of demos. of course with EP features.
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When do the programmers have to apply for the contest? Is there a deadline? Or is it enough to post the programs in May, 2016?
I thought that the best way would be that the participants send all the links/screens/programs/descrption/credits in the form how it should appear on the site/forum topic so all the works could be presented/published on the same day...
Or make the participants present their work on that one day but that wouldn't be a good idea.
Yes, the best idea seems that the participants send their works to someone who uploads them to the forum.
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What if just one program arrives to the wild category? Or more programs but from the same author?
Well, it is absolutely not sure, so we have time to think about that later.
Well.. from my earlier points it would go that then the wild compo also wouldn't be prized... The same with more programs from one author being the only entries in one category...
However an alternative for taht would be the thing I wrote in one of my later posts - the people could decide how much of their donated sum goes to which category... They would decide that after the announcement of the statistics of compo entries (how many, by whom and for every category)... So they would decide if they want to prize a category with only one entry...
It is a good question... But I am not sure it is good this way. The well designed levels or music can even make the game much better. Although you are right. If someone wants to do this way let him do.
Well the authors must take into account that submitting a game that's not fully finished could result in lower notes...
an idea: conversion of demos. of course with EP features.
We could list some more potential categories but in the end the number of entries and gathered funds decide if that category will be prized or the entries moved to the wild category. And there would have to be at least two entries from different authors for this category to be valid (at least if nobody has a better solution) ...
When do the programmers have to apply for the contest? Is there a deadline? Or is it enough to post the programs in May, 2016?
I had two propositions but all in all the deadline would be in may...:
The first proposition was that the entries can be submitted until beginning of may followed by the presentation then polling, funds dividing and announcement of results.
The second had a "liquid deadline" where the deadline is one-two weeks long and it's a time-window when the entries have to be submitted. People can poll, decide where their money goes etc for the duration of the "deadline". The day after the deadline ends we announce the results.
But these are still only propositions. More people have to decide on that.
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The first proposition was that the entries can be submitted until beginning of may followed by the presentation then polling, funds dividing and announcement of results.
The second had a "liquid deadline" where the deadline is one-two weeks long and it's a time-window when the entries have to be submitted. People can poll, decide where their money goes etc for the duration of the "deadline". The day after the deadline ends we announce the results.
But these are still only propositions. More people have to decide on that.
I think the 2nd is a good idea, but the 1st is more simple, and I do not want to make difference between the categories by my part of future fund :)
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[...] and I do not want to make difference between the categories by my part of future fund :)
I've added that point because I thought that maybe some people would prefer to control where their money would be going and as this competition is meant to be crowd-funded then those preferences do matter (it's your money - you decide, although you don't have to and then it'd be divided equally). Or we decide now how the full donated sum would be divided (in percentage). Or do that after the deadline (knowing the number of entries and categories) but also together (through a poll?)
Also because it's meant to be a crowd-funded event, I really need more opinions and critique of the propositions for rules...
What about the hungarian board, do they know we are trying to organize a competition?
And even if you don't plan to participate in any way (by a submission or donation) you still can have a valuable opinion/idea that you could share...
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What about the hungarian board, do they know we are trying to organize a competition?
I think so.
Most people from the Hungarian forum speak or understand some English.
Should we announce this event in the Hungarian forum too?
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I think so.
Most people from the Hungarian forum speak or understand some English.
Should we announce this event in the Hungarian forum too?
No need if all know...
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http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/51517/enterprise-128-dev-compo
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Endi you were fast :) We will see the reactions , I hope there will be more positive feedback :)
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Tutus have some very good question which should be clarified for the invitation:
"- What is the official name of the competition who is the organizer, what prices can win?
1st Enterprise GameDevCompo , or chose a better one?
"- Exact dates (announce of the compo, deadline for submission, start date of voting etc. ?)"
I like 1 week before EP birthday for the deadline for submission, and after start voting. Announce of the compo could be 1st of nov, but may be we are late for it
"Which categories will be available?"
- EP program
- Conversion
- Wild (Other)
- possibly Graphich
"Which other conditions are valid for enter to the Compo?"
The conversion should contain EP specific stuff, the readiness of the program should be at least 80%.
A programmer / group can enter more entry in the Compo.
"which other conditions are valid for sending the programs?"
A short video has to be catpured from the program which should be uploaded to youtube, the link should be attached to the forum, or the home page of the event, some screenshot should be sent from the game menü, and from the game, and of course the program needed also to enter the compo:)
Parts of other programs can be used als (graphics, music, etc), but is should be sign in the game.
These are the things which were mentioned in the forum earlier, and my oppinion, other ideas? :)
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"- What is the official name of the competition who is the organizer, what prices can win?
1st Enterprise GameDevCompo , or chose a better one?
Enterprise128 GameDevCompo#1 "Life begins at 30"
I like it more with a subtitle ;P, although don't know about "GameDev" because there are also other non-game categories but it should be ok.
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Enterprise128 GameDevCompo#1 "Life begins at 30"
I like it more with a subtitle ;P, although don't know about "GameDev" because there are also other non-game categories but it should be ok.
I think so :)
This name is better :)
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GameDev? Demos too... or something anything.
DevCompo!
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I agree, "Game" in the name is too game centric, even if other kind of software is accepted too, somehow just "devcompo" sounds better. At least for me ...
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wow I am now happy, because I am sure, my GraCha editor will win the utility category :P
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wow I am now happy, because I am sure, my GraCha editor will win the utility category :P
:-) It's even hard to define what utility is. It's kinda hard to compare a game level editor (well, or whatever we want to name it) with eg an EXDOS low level utility, or similar. I guess, it's almost impossible ...
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GameDev? Demos too... or something anything.
DevCompo!
I agree, "Game" in the name is too game centric, even if other kind of software is accepted too, somehow just "devcompo" sounds better. At least for me ...
you're right, let's stratch the "Game" from the name
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Any other opinions about the dates, deadline form and other conditions?
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Please guys... If we want to do it then there must be more opinions, votes regarding the rules. For now the only decided thing we got is the name of the event and some approximations of the dates...
"- Exact dates (announce of the compo, deadline for submission, start date of voting etc. ?)"
I like 1 week before EP birthday for the deadline for submission, and after start voting. Announce of the compo could be 1st of nov, but may be we are late for it
After a little thought, this option should be better than the "liquid deadline" because with the latter people would vote before seeing every entry so their voting would be somewhat biased...
"Which categories will be available?"
- EP program
- Conversion
- Wild (Other)
- possibly Graphich
Possibly "EP programs" should be divided into basic and asm but that (as all) depends on the number of entries.
[...] the readiness of the program should be at least 80%.
What does that mean? We have to specify. (Earlier I wrote what it means for me)
"which other conditions are valid for sending the programs?"
A short video has to be catpured from the program which should be uploaded to youtube, the link should be attached to the forum, or the home page of the event, some screenshot should be sent from the game menü, and from the game, and of course the program needed also to enter the compo:)
I think we will use the forum for everything realated to the competition.
But a dedicated web page would be more "professional" so if a web developer popped up that would be great, but the forum is always the easier and faster option.
Parts of other programs can be used als (graphics, music, etc), but is should be sign in the game.
"In the game" or would it suffice to just include the full credits (with eventual links) in the description of the entry.
There is also the need to include the info that it's a crowd-funded event and donations can be made till the end of the competition (or just the deadline?).
Maybe we should add a point that the rules can be changed in the first month (or till end of the year)? Then we could announce the competition and still have time to make some changes (and with some voices from the outside).
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If nobody else has any new oppinion, then we can start with this setup, it is hard to clarify what is 80% ready, we can write it, but we are not able to correctly define, it would be always subjective. I think the main point of 80% readiness would be, the game is playable ( at least one level )
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Endi, ergoGnomik, and Zozo had ideas in Hungarian topic:
"The programs should run with any hardware and software extension (should be EXOS compatible)
Deadline for submission should be at 19th of may 23:59:59, the entries could be put here into a new menu point at the top. Voting could be done via mail during one week, after the mentioned menu point could be amended with the announcment.
That is no problem if a program takes advantage of more memory and faster CPU.
There could be an EP64 category, there are less RAM, and slower speed, EP128 category, and expanded EP category (we could decide it later if we have enough entries I think)
One oppinion from ergoGnomik:
The entries should be collected by someone, and made them public only after the deadline, certainly the owner of the program could send new versions until the deadline, if she/he made modification(s) on it.
Other from Endi:
The programmers can upload their entries continously until the deadline. This is not a real competition, it will be good to if somebody inserted a new entry.
It would be good to continue the discussions awhile, we could advert the start date 20th of Nov 0:00, so in this way the participant would have half year for preparing.
We could try to involve programmers from Pouët (http://www.pouet.net/) who search new platforms. I do not know if somebody has account there. If yes, we could try to invite "Star developers". I remember the following sceners who are apparently looking for "new" machines and have Z80 practice: Rhino/BG, Sdw, goblinish, but I am sure there are dozens who do not afraid from trying new hardware. "
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Voting could be done via mail during one week
In the forum there is "vote" function. Would it not be easier?
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In the forum there is "vote" function. Would it not be easier?
If it can be used for this purpose also then it is a great idea.
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Endi, ergoGnomik, and Zozo had ideas in Hungarian topic:
"The programs should run with any hardware and software extension (should be EXOS compatible)
But you don't mean that all they should work on ep64, right?
Deadline for submission should be at 19th of may 23:59:59, the entries could be put here into a new menu point at the top. Voting could be done via mail during one week, after the mentioned menu point could be amended with the announcment.
ok
That is no problem if a program takes advantage of more memory and faster CPU.
There could be an EP64 category, there are less RAM, and slower speed, EP128 category, and expanded EP category (we could decide it later if we have enough entries I think)
I really, really wouldn't want to put limitations... We could divide the entries into some additional categories (of courrse if the their number and funds allow it) but I don't want to limit people's creativity.
I really want to see many entries and then maybe even we will be able to see some true enterprise potential that couldn't be seen in the commercial era...
One oppinion from ergoGnomik:
The entries should be collected by someone, and made them public only after the deadline, certainly the owner of the program could send new versions until the deadline, if she/he made modification(s) on it.
Other from Endi:
The programmers can upload their entries continously until the deadline. This is not a real competition, it will be good to if somebody inserted a new entry.
What will we choose?
I think endi's proposition is actually very similar to the second option I was proposing earlier ("liquid deadline", but there I was giving two weeks for the "deadline").
Then it would be more like grammies or oscars - I mean like giving prizes for best "products" of the last year.
It would be good to continue the discussions awhile, we could advert the start date 20th of Nov 0:00, so in this way the participant would have half year for preparing.
ok
We could try to involve programmers from Pouët (http://www.pouet.net/) who search new platforms. I do not know if somebody has account there. If yes, we could try to invite "Star developers". I remember the following sceners who are apparently looking for "new" machines and have Z80 practice: Rhino/BG, Sdw, goblinish, but I am sure there are dozens who do not afraid from trying new hardware. "
The more the merrier.
So I guess the dates are settled.
But which "deadline" from will we go with?
I really want the competition to be very open and attractive for all, so that many people could participate...
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But you don't mean that all they should work on ep64, right?
No, we should not limit the programs only for EP64, the hardware and software extensions meant that the program should work with any of them so it should be EXOS compatible.
I really, really wouldn't want to put limitations... We could divide the entries into some additional categories (of courrse if the their number and funds allow it) but I don't want to limit people's creativity.
I really want to see many entries and then maybe even we will be able to see some true enterprise potential that couldn't be seen in the commercial era...
I also would like to see many entries, and I hope some programmer from other platform will develop programs EP in the future also, from my side the EXOS compatibility is not mandatory it would be a recommended.
What will we choose?
I think endi's proposition is actually very similar to the second option I was proposing earlier ("liquid deadline", but there I was giving two weeks for the "deadline").
Then it would be more like grammies or oscars - I mean like giving prizes for best "products" of the last year.
I think Endi's proposition is that the programmers can submit their entries from the beginning of the competition until the deadline. I like Endi's idea in this way everybody can see the new items.
So I guess the dates are settled.
But which "deadline" from will we go with?
I really want the competition to be very open and attractive for all, so that many people could participate...
Which deadline do you mean? The voting, or the submission deadline? Because you mentioned here the announcement of the result would be on the birthday of EP, the voting can be closed before the announcement, and we need 1-2 weeks voting.
I would like it also.
I will ask the your questions in the hungarian part.
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What do you think if we advertise the competition without strict categories, only with text categories will be chosen based of received entries, because as I see nearly all other thing is cleared, and the categories are depend on received entries, and our fund.
Or we can mention 3 categories (EP program, conversion, wild, which can be divided based on received programs)
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I think Endi's proposition is that the programmers can submit their entries from the beginning of the competition until the deadline. I like Endi's idea in this way everybody can see the new items.
Yeah, and maybe with this option the participants would be more daring to post some wip info on their progress where they could openly ask for help etc... Also people would see that something (I hope a lot) is going on and maybe it would motivate some of them to also try something...
Which deadline do you mean? The voting, or the submission deadline? Because you mentioned here the announcement of the result would be on the birthday of EP, the voting can be closed before the announcement, and we need 1-2 weeks voting.
I meant the submission deadline... Although I must admit that I don't remember waht I was talking earlier so I could mess them up...
What do you think if we advertise the competition without strict categories, only with text categories will be chosen based of received entries, because as I see nearly all other thing is cleared, and the categories are depend on received entries, and our fund.
Maybe that would be for the better. Because the categories are too much dependant on other factors that we cannot forsee/estimate at the moment
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Yeah, and maybe with this option the participants would be more daring to post some wip info on their progress where they could openly ask for help etc... Also people would see that something (I hope a lot) is going on and maybe it would motivate some of them to also try something...
Yes, I did not thought about motivation factor, but it is also a good point :) , that was mentioned earlier on the hungarian topic, we could include into the invitation letter that help can be requested on the EP forum :)
In the Hungarian topic this solution also supported :)
I meant the submission deadline... Although I must admit that I don't remember waht I was talking earlier so I could mess them up...
I think the submission deadline should be one week earlier of EP birthday, then we would have 1 week for voting.
Maybe that would be for the better. Because the categories are too much dependant on other factors that we cannot forsee/estimate at the moment
Yes, it depends on incoming entries and our fund, I hope we will have both of them more than enough :D
I think we have all points closed which is needed for the invitation mail, or do we have any open points ?
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There were a CPCRetroDev (http://cpcgamereviews.com/) party which was finished yesterday :)
35 entry arrived , I would be happy if we will have 15-20 entries for EP :)
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I think we have all points closed which is needed for the invitation mail, or do we have any open points ?
I think that we have all covered, but most probably something will pop up on the go...
There were a CPCRetroDev (http://cpcgamereviews.com/) party which was finished yesterday :)
35 entry arrived , I would be happy if we will have 15-20 entries for EP :)
I hope so too. However all depends on how many "outside people" will join us.
We could do at least 5 on our own, I think...
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Finally here is the English link for EP DevCompo (http://enterpress.news.hu/ep_devcompo_en.html) :) Thanks for Tutus :)
I inserted the link to WOS : WOS EP link (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/51517/enterprise-128-dev-compo)
Please distribute it also where you think it, just share here where did you distributed to avoid double / triple distribution on the same place :)
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Finally here is the English link for EP DevCompo (http://enterpress.news.hu/ep_devcompo_en.html) :) Thanks for Tutus :)
I inserted the link to WOS : WOS EP link (http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/discussion/51517/enterprise-128-dev-compo)
Please distribute it also where you think it, just share here where did you distributed to avoid double / triple distribution on the same place :)
Great, however the poster lacks the info about the possibility of donating to the prize poll... Remember that we'll need additional funds if we want to make the event attractive for "outsiders" so they'll want to sacrifice their time for brewing something for a "new" machine.
I'll put the poster up later today on cpcwiki and speccy.pl (but maybe pear would be the more appropriate person to inform the latter).
EDIT:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/enterprise-devcompo1-'life-begins-at-30'/new/#new
http://speccy.pl/forum/index.php/topic,2271.0.html
I wasn't sure which subforum I should use so I put it in "Other retro" and "Miscellaneous"... Hope that wasn't a mistake.
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I'll put the poster up later today on cpcwiki and speccy.pl (but maybe pear would be the more appropriate person to inform the latter).
I thought about it, but it's your idea, so you should to inform :)
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Created topic at russian ZX-PK.ru (http://zx-pk.ru/showthread.php?t=25835).
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Great, however the poster lacks the info about the possibility of donating to the prize poll... Remember that we'll need additional funds if we want to make the event attractive for "outsiders" so they'll want to sacrifice their time for brewing something for a "new" machine.
I think it can be included in the forum, because there is a link to the forum for further details, we can make a new topic for it, or just include here.
The best would be a separate topix to the Entereprise DevCompo which is visible on the main screen, or a direct link in the main screen to the DevCompo topic.
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I think it can be included in the forum, because there is a link to the forum for further details, we can make a new topic for it, or just include here.
The best would be a separate topix to the Entereprise DevCompo which is visible on the main screen, or a direct link in the main screen to the DevCompo topic.
You're right, sorry.
This topic became a bit messy, so I think it's not a good place - a new topic would be better and we would have to put sorted out information from this one.
So... a new topic about the devcompo but add the button linking to the topic on the upper part of the site. Then we'll all see that it's happening and everyone can easily skip to it. Maybe it should be an entire subforum? (you know - wips and stuff - everything in one place...).
EDIT: Could someone more experienced answer arnoldemu at cpcwiki? Or put the information that he requested on the forum?
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EDIT: Could someone more experienced answer arnoldemu at cpcwiki? Or put the information that he requested on the forum?
I think my old example program will be a good start.
-EXOS call macro definition
-standard EXOS file header definition
-allocate video memory via EXOS
-allocate other memory via EXOS
-EXIT routine
-some settings at the start
-LPT definition for 320x200 4 color screen
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I think my old example program will be a good start.
Haha, that's exactly the file I posted in response at cpcwiki. But I should add the additional info...
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You can post where can be found the emulator.
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Haha, that's exactly the file I posted in response at cpcwiki. But I should add the additional info...
What kind of additional info do you mean?
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What kind of additional info do you mean?
Only the details posted by Zozo about what specifically the sample.asm shows.
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SAMPLE-1.ASM shows:
EP autoloader header - line 12-16 2nd byte should be 5, this means machine code application program, 3rd-4th byte is the length of the file.
Store soft reset routine - line 22-23 this should be done on FF segment at address 3ff8h
Soft reset routine - line 128-160 this should be on page 0, at the bottom there is a shorter soft reset routine by IstvánV
Speed up EP - line 33-34 disable memory wait states, EP programs will run at 4MHz in normal RAM
Allocate video segment - line 164-185
Calculate Nick address of video segment (screen) - line 50-55
Calculate nick address of LPT - line 58-60
get a free segment - line 61-63
copy LPT - line 78-81
set LPT addr to Nick 82-83h registers - line 83-94 - after this the new screen is activated, and visible
example for keyboard handling - line 103-110
EP keyboard matrice - line 112-124
Sample LPT table (320x200 4 colour) - line 196-226 (generate video syncron sign - line 209-226)
exit di
ld sp,0100h
ld a,0ffh
out (0b2h),a
ld c,40h
exos 0
ld a,01h
out (0b3h), a
ld a,06h
jp 0c00dh
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Please check EP devcompo Board, I made some topics, please let me know your oppinion if it is ok, or something is missing/should be modified.
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Please check EP devcompo Board, I made some topics, please let me know your oppinion if it is ok, or something is missing/should be modified.
I don't like that there are two subforums on the compo :oops: . I think that there should be one subforum, where people still could post in hungarian but the moderators (or the authors of the posts) would be asked to translate them (google translate doesn't do a fine job... at least in my opinion, so it's often very hard to understand). Having two, there will be a lot of "on the hungarian subforum they asked/posted.../on the english forum they said/shown..." reposting. I think we shouldn't make the division... But that's my opinion.
The "other" aka "wild" category doesn't have to include programs - these can be all - graphics, music, historic movie or something like that - everything that doesn't fit into the other categories (also this category can be later divided into more... if there will be more stuff). Also games that don't meet the rules of the main categories will go (at least when there'll be no more categories) to the "wild". This way we shouldn't discuss the rules (or are these still "open" for changes?)
Has someone got an account on a msx or sms forum? or any other? maybe you know a good general 8bit-related site that we could put out the information about the compo?
And we should also make some tutorial topics... For example about adding/converting tunes (using the available tools). Maybe someone has other propositions regarding that? Please share your knowledge everyone (who has some time, that is)
I'll try to put some basic "game template" in asm...
This is all I could remember of what I've wanted to write...
EDIT:
Although the tutorials could be a good idea, I think that because they would cost a lot of time and effort... So lets just keep all of that in the form of Q&A (in the Q%A topic of course;P) - when someone will have a problem with it and asks, then we will try to help. Although if someone does one then please share
EDIT2:
Again on the "tutorials" - think that maybe put in the Q&A some ready pair - a basic workflow with the emulator and programming ide... For example I setup the emu config to use the FileIO then change the working directory to the one of my project and from then on I do F9(I use conText with f9 set to compile with pasmo)->F11(to reset the emu)->any key (to get out to basic from the flashing ep screen)->F1(to open the load com file dialog)->choose the com file-> test
Also the debugging: I put a jp $ where I would want the breakpoint to be, run the program, when it locks I go the disassembler and write down the PC address and use it (after deleteing the jp $ and recompiling my source file) in "step to" address to get a breakpoint behaviour... I know there should be an easier way to do it but I've got accustomed to that... although it takes a little more time
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I don't like that there are two subforums on the compo :oops: . I think that there should be one subforum, where people still could post in hungarian but the moderators (or the authors of the posts) would be asked to translate them (google translate doesn't do a fine job... at least in my opinion, so it's often very hard to understand). Having two, there will be a lot of "on the hungarian subforum they asked/posted.../on the english forum they said/shown..." reposting. I think we shouldn't make the division... But that's my opinion.
I think you are right in one side, but from the other side 1 subforum for 2 languages would be chaotic, it would contain hungarian and english also, in this way we could insert the new posts only in english into the DevCompo UK part, which is the main board of the DevCompo i think. Google translate is a shit :) this is my oppinion :)
The "other" aka "wild" category doesn't have to include programs - these can be all - graphics, music, historic movie or something like that - everything that doesn't fit into the other categories (also this category can be later divided into more... if there will be more stuff). Also games that don't meet the rules of the main categories will go (at least when there'll be no more categories) to the "wild". This way we shouldn't discuss the rules (or are these still "open" for changes?)
Other category has been modified :) , this is still flexible, based on the incoming entries, and our available fund.
Has someone got an account on a msx or sms forum? or any other? maybe you know a good general 8bit-related site that we could put out the information about the compo?
unfortunately I do not have :(
And we should also make some tutorial topics... For example about adding/converting tunes (using the available tools). Maybe someone has other propositions regarding that? Please share your knowledge everyone (who has some time, that is)
I'll try to put some basic "game template" in asm...
May be a separated topic, would be good for this kind of activity, as i know who converted any programs used AY emulation routine of IstvánV which makes the conversion on the fly. There are 2 tools for creating music on EP, 1 Music Box, and the other is RockDigi, you are able to do mod like music, but this can be mainly in progrma menu.
Your Edit2 can be useful for newcomers :)
Also the debugging: I put a jp $ where I would want the breakpoint to be, run the program, when it locks I go the disassembler and write down the PC address and use it (after deleteing the jp $ and recompiling my source file) in "step to" address to get a breakpoint behaviour... I know there should be an easier way to do it but I've got accustomed to that... although it takes a little more time
Pasmo does not produce an output of assembly listing during comilation which contains both the source and the generated code and possible errors?
I use SJASM and i can check the address of needed breakpoint from the assembly listing.
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Were we able to contact some demosceners? Someone was writing about pouet...
I think that the Enterprise should be especially attractive for them, as it's a more or less untrodden territory of the 8bits... It should have many unique (compared to other 8bit computers of the time) features that weren't even discovered yet... Maybe not like the c64, but still (although the magic of c64 comes from the exploitation of custom chips' bugs and with the ep's nick it isn't possible...)
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Were we able to contact some demosceners? Someone was writing about pouet...
I think that the Enterprise should be especially attractive for them, as it's a more or less untrodden territory of the 8bits... It should have many unique (compared to other 8bit computers of the time) features that weren't even discovered yet... Maybe not like the c64, but still (although the magic of c64 comes from the exploitation of custom chips' bugs and with the ep's nick it isn't possible...)
If nobody does it until the weekend, I will try to contact them, ErgoGnomik mentioned some scener place in the Hungarian topic :)
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Maybe create an additional subforum where people could post their wips? It was very fun to read those that people run for the recent cpcgamedev.
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Maybe create an additional subforum where people could post their wips?
What is the wips? :oops:
Google translate don't translate it, google found as Wireless intrusion prevention system :-)
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What is the wips? :oops:
Google translate don't translate it, google found as Wireless intrusion prevention system :-)
oh, sorry
Work In Progress
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Maybe create an additional subforum where people could post their wips? It was very fun to read those that people run for the recent cpcgamedev.
You can create an additional subforum :)
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You can create an additional subforum :)
But what I've meant is a child board (inside the compo board) - I can create one?
Because each "rpoduction" should have a dedicated topic.
Or would it be better to add as a normal topic in the compo board (under Enterprise DevCompo #1 where there currently says "No messages"). Sorry, I'm maybe asking stupid question once again, but I don't want to thrash the board.
Also I would want to move there the HatTrick topic.
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Sorry, you are right, a Child board, or a new topic needed, I do not know which would be the best, if we create a child board then it can happen there will be only some comments in one topic, if we make a topic for it, it could be chaotic if there are a lot of updates.
MrPrise can create child board , if it is the choice.
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I would prefer having a seperate childboard where you could create seperate topics on every wip. But we could also just leave it as is and use the "Programming" boards for posting the wips.
...Maybe we leave it as is? I don't think that there will be many wips... These are kind of development journals and not everybody likes running them.
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Anyone fancy on doing an invite intro? I could try and make some music with some help of another person (I'm terrible at finishing things). Maybe also code if nobody more skills would want... Endi as a graphician could do some graphics - if he wanted to of course. And we could make something "simple" - gfx+msx+scroll+ maybe a simple demo effect. This way we could "inform" the pouet and maybe other similar about the compo.
Maybe view invitations on youtube and decide on a layout or form?
Some large graphics with an effect in the background (all in char mode) + scroll message and a second "page" with the rules?
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Anyone fancy on doing an invite intro? I could try and make some music with some help of another person (I'm terrible at finishing things). Maybe also code if nobody more skills would want... Endi as a graphician could do some graphics - if he wanted to of course. And we could make something "simple" - gfx+msx+scroll+ maybe a simple demo effect. This way we could "inform" the pouet and maybe other similar about the compo.
Maybe view invitations on youtube and decide on a layout or form?
Some large graphics with an effect in the background (all in char mode) + scroll message and a second "page" with the rules?
It is a good idea :) my problem is : I am very slow , and not a good programmer :)
I would prefer having a seperate childboard where you could create seperate topics on every wip. But we could also just leave it as is and use the "Programming" boards for posting the wips.
...Maybe we leave it as is? I don't think that there will be many wips... These are kind of development journals and not everybody likes running them.
Then we can follow this concept and if there are many WIP we could ask MrPrise to make child boards if it is possible, I do not know of the depth until it is possible.