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Author Topic: Enterprise All-In-One interface (Read 21495 times)

Offline pear

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Enterprise All-In-One interface
« on: 2015.April.21. 10:13:42 »
I saw a post about this title, but I do not know Hungarian.
Can I ask for a translation, although this one post ?

For now build single blocks, but there is nothing to prevent them later to combine into a single project.
Are there any details, I should know about connecting to Enterprise more than one card at the same time ?
I would add information about switching memory banks, addressing external devices and what exactly are additional signals on the edge connector (EC0-EC3, /EXTC, SA0-SA2).

Offline lgb

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #1 on: 2015.April.21. 17:21:00 »
Well, I am not a great translator (or especially good in English ...) at all, but I try, something similar this would be in English:

Excuse me if some is bored or flustered by me, but now there are the features (probably sometimes including my own personal wishes as well) for the "all-in-one" interface what I imagined after reading the forum for a while:

1.) hyper-mega-super Zozosoft style HDD controller with driver programs + (hopefully) EXDOS 2.006
2.) Floppy controller WD1770/72 or the MCU based solution from Tigrian which can handle 3.5" DSHD disks too (well at least it works with 8/16MHz clock, but I am "not against" the multiclock solution can be seen at Garfield either :) )
3.) Bus expander: 1-3 SBB compatible card connector
4.) (at least) 1MByte RAM, (at least) 512K flash ROM (it can be reprogrammed without extra hw stuff, right?)
5.) Making machine turbo'ish (ok, here I am a bit lost. In my opinion there can be a part at one corner of the PCB producing switchable system clock 8-12-16 MHz, which is driven back to the machine then where the system clock would have come out. In this case the original quartz must be avoided. But sorry if my idea is dumb)
6.) Mészáros' RS232/mouse serial card compatible
7.) Battery backed clock/calendar (ZozoTools, Exos x.x and exdos 2.006 compatible)
-------
8.) Spectrum emulator
9.) 8bit DAC (and/or ADC?)
10.) USB port
11.) "Toronyóra lánccal" -> errr ... hard to translate saying :D "tower clock with chain" meaning some wants everything

So here it goes: you can argue (or you can waggle your head about the lameness of the author of this post...)

Offline pear

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #2 on: 2015.April.21. 18:25:35 »
Thank you and do not worry. I do not know English well enough to judge you. But now I understand much more than the Hungarian :)
Ok, well what we have here ?
Points 2 and 8 have already included :) Now I'm working on the third.
The plan is to have 4 and 1, and exactly IDE with CF card reader. I don't know what means "hyper-mega-super" :)
Item 5. Is it safe? These computers have their years.
Points 6, 7 and 9. Easy to do, but RS-232 and DAC may be expensive. Only UART controller costs about $ 15.
Item 10. Full USB or enough RS232-to-USB converter ?
Item 11. I don't idea what is it :)

To sum this all-in-one must be very expensive.
Perhaps much more expensive than the Enterprise itself.
Maybe not everyone needs everything ?
I have an idea for a modular and yet this version, I will hold. :)

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #3 on: 2015.April.21. 19:49:47 »
It is a wish list from a non professional user. Some are meaningless some are impossible.
And todays some are obsolete (IDE, RS232...).

My today wish list :-)
- EXDOS with four speed turbo for HD and turbo DD disks
- 512K Flash ROM, and least 2x512K SRAM (most easy part, address decoding need only one 74HCT138 :-) )
- standard MC146818 compatible RTC
- built in Bus Extender, follow the Hungarian type. With few slots for future (or old) expansions. I suggest holes for both Edge and IDC connectors, then the user can decide.
- Spectrum Emulator 5.0 :-) I have ideas for make more better... probably try add SP128 mode...
- external 4x8 bit DAC, connected to sound input lines. It is already supported by DTM player
- AY chip, connected to sound input lines. Will be usefull for Spectrum emulator.
- SID chip, connected to sound input lines. For the SID Player.
- will be great if these 3 sound devices can be used in same time :-) (+Dave)
- optionaly if you want a own mass storage device: CF card in memory mode, and mapped as memory (then data transfer can be done with LDIR) But today exist a gret SD Card interface for the Enterprise.
- optionaly: http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/Hardware/PCB/Picture/coprocessor.gif :-)
- everything can be used up to 10MHz machine!

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #4 on: 2015.April.21. 20:09:22 »
what exactly are additional signals on the edge connector (EC0-EC3, /EXTC,
These are the external color inputs for the Nick chip. For example sprite hardware. Currently don't use anything.

Quote
SA0-SA2
These are the Slot Address lines for the planned but never released official expansion unit.
The original concept: each slot have a different slot address, and the cards use these for memory and I/O address decoding. Plug and Play from 1985 :-D
But unfortunatelly the official unit not released, and the documents also not published. Then all expansion use own fixed address decoding, and not use these signals. Only the original EXDOS card use this system. This is the reason why a lot of ICs used in the original EXDOS card.
The clone EXDOS card also using fixed addresses, and the softwares which handling directly the floppy also use the direct addresses.
My conclusion forgot these then you can make more simple EXDOS schematic.

Offline pear

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #5 on: 2015.April.21. 20:14:05 »
In that case, the next module will be RAM, Flash, and clock in one. :)
Will I find somewhere schematics ?

What is this "four speed turbo" ? WD1772 is based on ?
I have yet a few PCB for EXDOS which I can cut :)

My Bus Extender (based on Hungarian) with IDC connector is ready.

Offline lgb

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #6 on: 2015.April.21. 20:34:27 »
I would like (most of Zozo's stuff, not mentioning them again (hopefully):

* SD card (well, we have the "standard" cartridge now, but if "all-in-one" let's name that way, so no need for other components to buy/use!)
* Ethernet solution, possibly something like wiznet w5300 chip (MSX/SymbOS world seems to be interested in wiznet chips as well)
* general SPI bus solution (also usable fog eg SD-card) so other SPI slave devices can be connected and used (even like MPEG audio codec IC over SPI to be able to play MP3s, the SymbOS demos on MSX use something like that, of course a Z80 can't decode MP3 in real time ..... and those ICs are not so expensive able to work in more primitive mode too, ie simple sample playback, etc - but numerous examples exist even kind of odd things with SPI)
* DAC maybe configurable to 16 bit mode as well over only 2*8? :D (oh, and about some "codec ICs" may do functions like plain DAC and hardware decoding MP3/vorbis/etc as well)
* even more odd idea: USB host to be able to use mass-storage class devices at least (pen drives, even HDDs with converters if some really wants, digital cameras and cell/smart phones using this protocol etc). Sometimes even sounds better than having SD card interface :)

I am not sure about these:

* some PS/2 (?) mouse interface? - maybe easier to do externally to be able to use PS/2 mouse and have boxsoft-like (compatible) signaling, etc
* some PS/2 (?) keyboard interface (it's a bit complex topic and no really usable solution exist still, it seems which is kinda sad in my opinion)

What I (personal opinion!) can live without:

* IDE/HDD: SD card is big enough for "retro", much more easy to handle etc
* floppy/FD: I never liked floppies
* serial/UART stuff

Personally I think network (ethernet) is even more important than SD, ie network storage then, instead of SD card which should be swapped between EP and the PC all the time :) Especially if some wants to develop something with rapid testing cycles.

And BTW, a PCB between Z80 and its socket so we can "convert" I/O port accesses. For example real Spectrum emulator, not with the NMI-when-keyboard etc. Ok, this is another topic already :)
« Last Edit: 2015.April.21. 20:51:57 by lgb »

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #7 on: 2015.April.21. 20:50:35 »
In that case, the next module will be RAM, Flash,
Just use 74HCT138.
A-B-C inputs: A19,A20,A21
G2A&G2B: MREQ
G1: RFSH (don't make chip select at refresh phase)
Outputs are valid for 8x512K areas.
Y0 and Y7 are colflicting with the onboard ROM and RAM, others can be used.

I suggest (when combine with EXDOS), use Y1 for the Flash, it is for the 20-3Fh segments, then EXDOS can be putted to 20-21h where normaly placed.
Y2, Y3 (or more :-) ) for the SRAM chips.

Quote
and clock in one. :)
RTC card.
Today can be used Dallas RTC chips with built in clock generator and battery, then the most of components not needed.

Quote
What is this "four speed turbo" ? WD1772 is based on ?
http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/Galery/Bovitmenyek/Picture/Ep-m17.jpg
http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/Galery/Bovitmenyek/Picture/Ep-m15.jpg

Yes need a WD1772-PH 02-02.
The WD clock switched 8/10/13.3333/16MHz if you have a 1.2M drive jumpered as 300 rpm, or 8/9.6/10/16Mhz if you have a 1.2M drive jumpered as 360 rpm.
8MHz the normal clock for DD disk and 300 rpm drives
9.6MHz for 360 rpm drive and normal DD disk
10Mhz for turbo DD on normal 300 rpm drives. 13 sectors/track formating. (I have more than 20 years old disks with this format and still working :-) )
13.333MHz for 300 rpm jumpered 1.2M drive use HD disks
16MHz for 1.44M drives and HD, and 360 rpm jumpered 1.2M drives and HD

Clock can be switched on I/O port.
The turbo DD with 10MHz also possible with WD1770

Using HD disks need least 6MHz machine.

(Atari ST users also do the 16MHz for HD trick)

Offline pear

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #8 on: 2015.April.21. 21:02:29 »
At what address I/O set the registry permission to write to flash ?
Or directly without any protection by /WR signal ? :shock:

WD1772-PH 02-02 is on board :)
My EXDOS in version for FlexiBridge.
« Last Edit: 2015.April.21. 21:08:35 by pear »

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #9 on: 2015.April.21. 21:04:57 »
* SD card (well, we have the "standard" cartridge now, but if "all-in-one" let's name that way, so no need for other components to buy/use!)
But need to design same with the existing one, or agree with the developers.

But need a terrible surface mounted components which can't handle at home with any user :-(

Quote
* Ethernet solution, possibly something like wiznet w5300 chip (MSX/SymbOS world seems to be interested in wiznet chips as well)
I know someone working on it :-)
For these are the expansion slots...

Quote
* even more odd idea: USB host to be able to use mass-storage class devices at least (pen drives, even HDDs with converters if some really wants, digital cameras and cell/smart phones using this protocol etc). Sometimes even sounds better than having SD card interface :)
I think the USB too complicated thing with lot of protocols need to be implemented. Then will be slow compared with direct SD or CF cards. I did not feel it necessary to.



Quote
* some PS/2 (?) mouse interface? - maybe easier to do externally to be able to use PS/2 mouse and have boxsoft-like (compatible) signaling, etc
You can't done as compatible on external card. Need to connect to joy port, or inside the machine.

Quote
* some PS/2 (?) keyboard interface
Also possible inside the machine. But why? Todays are available new membranes.

Quote
* floppy/FD: I never liked floppies
I'm love floppies! :ds_icon_cheesygrin: The tak-tak-tak... needed for the retro feeling!

Quote
* serial/UART stuff
I don't know reason for this at 2015 :twisted:
« Last Edit: 2015.April.21. 22:11:02 by Zozosoft »

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #10 on: 2015.April.21. 21:12:37 »
Or directly without any protection by /WR signal ? :shock:
Just directly. Flash chips have a built in protocols for the protection. But possible add WR jumper for maximum safe.
AMD or Macronix 29F040 chips recommended, these are well tested with Enterprise.

Offline pear

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #11 on: 2015.April.21. 21:19:13 »
OK, then let's do it !

Offline gflorez

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #12 on: 2015.April.21. 21:34:58 »

* even more odd idea: USB host to be able to use mass-storage class devices at least (pen drives, even HDDs with converters if some really wants, digital cameras and cell/smart phones using this protocol etc). Sometimes even sounds better than having SD card interface :)

---------------------

Personally I think network (ethernet) is even more important than SD, ie network storage then, instead of SD card which should be swapped between EP and the PC all the time :) Especially if some wants to develop something with rapid testing cycles.


I have an All-in-One solution for the Spectrum that uses a USB host cable (Spectrum-PC link) for storage and also for networking(basic FTP) to the World of Spectrum web page. Who doesn't have a modern computer at the side of the Enterprise?
« Last Edit: 2015.April.21. 21:41:35 by gflorez »

Offline pear

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #13 on: 2015.April.21. 21:41:16 »
I rather not undertake this project.
It requires a lot of knowledge, which unfortunately do not have.
From what I know If1Bis was created several years. I have this one - a great thing. :)

Offline gflorez

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Re: Enterprise All-In-One interface
« Reply #14 on: 2015.April.21. 21:44:25 »
Yes, a great but complicate thing......