Enterprise Forever

:UK => Hardware => Interface => Topic started by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 13:12:39

Title: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 13:12:39
Quote from: jltursan
Btw, in a spanish forum, we're trying to clone the EXDOS controller: Controladora de disco para Enterprise (http://www.retrowiki.es/fororw/viewtopic.php?f=679&t=31209)
It's only in spanish, sorry. Also, the forum engine is a bit retrictive and links are not shown to unregistered users :(; but I'll be happy to give you all details about the development.

Why not talk about it some months earlier? :oops:

It is looks as creating full clone of the original card. But it is can be optimized for a less components!

Firstly see the floppy part of the MICROTEAM card. (http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/Hardware/PCB/Picture/MICROTEAM-EXDOS-1.jpg) It is (and all other hungarian clones) using 2 7406 instead 3 7438.
It is use 74LS245 instead 74LS126 because the 245 ICS are more common.

And the main problem with the original card: it is developed for a "Plug and Play" bus system, where the bus sockets have a extra socket address pins, and these are also used for memory and I/O address decoding. Each slot have a different address space.
But this system never released, because the Enterprise company crashed :-(
Only the one socket System Bus Bridge and the original EXDOS card used this complex address decoding method.
All other expansion and EXDOS clones used a fixed address decoding for a less components.

For a build new EXDOS clone I also suggest fixed decoding.
For a ROM I suggest a 512K Flash ROM IC, it is can be filled with lot of programs :-) and optionaly can be added 512K SRAM chips as RAM expansion, because easy to do it :-)
For 512K ROM chip + X*512K SRAM only needed ONE 74HCT138 as address decoder!
And I think another two chips enought for the I/O decoding.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 13:18:18
Another suggestion: add jumpers for the floppy connector to make selectable original Shugart or PC/AT pinout. For using original flat cable with jumperable drives, or using twisted cable with modern 3.5" drives without jumpers.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: jltursan on 2014.September.11. 13:22:36
It's a very recent project that take us all by surprise :). In fact, the man behind it is an Apple fan recently abducted by Enterprise's dark side :ds_icon_cheesygrin:

I'm not sure about their skills and if he's confident enough to change the original design; but if I have your permission, I'll translate your suggestions to the thread.

[uote]Another suggestion: add jumpers for the floppy connector to make selectable original Shugart or PC/AT pinout. For using original flat cable with jumperable drives, or using twisted cable with modern 3.5" drives without jumpers.[/quote]

I suposse you mean swapping A: & B:. I'm not sure if Enterprise uses /RDY, /DC and /DCreset signals...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 13:27:00
And as I wrote in the other topic: use WD1772. It is exist a ROM version which are set the stepping rate default to 3ms.

Anyway I see on the photos: using version 1.3. It is can be possible the modified version which are not too godd choice for 1770, because the setting which are 3ms on 1722 30ms on 1770 :oops:
The :VAR 73 command what answering? 0 or 3?
0 good for 1770 (6ms stepping rate, this is the fastest on 1770), 3 good for 1772 (3ms)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 13:33:31
Quote from: jltursan
I'll translate your suggestions to the thread.
Please do it!

Quote
I suposse you mean swapping A: & B:.
Yes, the change about the drive select and motor on wires.

Quote
I'm not sure if Enterprise uses /RDY, /DC and /DCreset signals...
We are very lucky! (Thanks for Bruce and friends! :ds_icon_cheesygrin: )
EXDOS don't use RDY and as default don't use hardware disk change signals. Then any (300RPM rotation) drive can be used. Many other machine have a lot of problem about these signals, and hard to replace their drives.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.11. 15:22:18
Quote from: Zozosoft
And as I wrote in the other topic: use WD1772. It is exist a ROM version which are set the stepping rate default to 3ms.

Anyway I see on the photos: using version 1.3. It is can be possible the modified version which are not too godd choice for 1770, because the setting which are 3ms on 1722 30ms on 1770 :oops:
The :VAR 73 command what answering? 0 or 3?
0 good for 1770 (6ms stepping rate, this is the fastest on 1770), 3 good for 1772 (3ms)
Do you noted this? :oops: Please also write to the developer.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: jltursan on 2014.September.11. 15:49:47
I missed it!. It's reported now
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2014.September.11. 17:44:15
Hello Jltursan. I'm interested on that blog but it doesn't permits more members....

---------------
Hola Jltursan. Estoy interesado en ese blog, pero no permite nuevos miembros...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2014.September.11. 19:47:43
Ah vale ya entiendo, hay que mandarles un email antes...

---------------

Ah, I understand it, I must send them an email before...


To retrowiki @ retrowiki.es with a brief description of your interests.

(The spaces inside the direction seem to be important but I've send another email without them yust in case...)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: jltursan on 2014.September.11. 21:57:18
I've also contacted the site admin telling him about you ;-)

-------------------------------------

Yo también he contactado con el administrador y le he hablado de tí ;-)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2014.September.11. 22:54:26
Muchas gracias Jltursan.

-----------------------

Thank you Jltursan.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.12. 10:57:28
I read - with google translate - some discussion about 3.5" drives.

The original cards with 7438 ICs and clone cards with 7406 ICs work with any 3.5" drives (old or modern) without any problem.
A HD drive can be used with DD disks, or cover the HD sense hole on HD disks.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: jltursan on 2014.September.12. 12:16:13
Indeed, they work fine. Seems that 74LS38 were used instead 7438 and they're giving some problems. He replaced two of three with real 7438 and the card looked more stable, he's now waiting for some 7438 to keep testing with all three replaced. The card is in a very alpha stage tho...

I think that once the prototype works, some optimizations will be performed on it.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.12. 12:33:52
I think 7406 are more common, at least in Hungary :-) I can get them in many shops. But 7438 needed to be ordered from Ebay.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: jltursan on 2014.September.12. 21:17:40
Good news!, seems that the controller was 100% working after all. It was only a big mess with the cabling used :oops:

Now it's time to polish the design...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2014.September.12. 22:20:18
Great work!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.April.21. 12:59:05
This is my version of EXDOS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOcvW1g3h8).
Redesigned by me. Prototype PCB has few mistakes (my fault), but it works.

EDIT:
I had no idea of the existence of the Spanish project.
Today I found a thread on this topic on retrowiki.es.
Did I accidentally to tread on someone's corns ? ;)
Sorry :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.April.21. 20:16:10
This is my version of EXDOS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOcvW1g3h8).
Nice!
Can you upload some photos?

For the schematic used the full - too complex - address decoding, or make a simplier fixed address solution?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.April.21. 20:36:55
These are the prototypical items :) Not really beautiful :)
Fixed addressing. Decoder made on a single chip GAL.
In this version, I forgot about a few little things. I do not have far too many pics, because I have to refine the design.
This project is done in three days, because I was sorry to use the original FDD (serial number 607), which was barely saved.
For the time being attached pictures before and after renovation.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.April.21. 21:23:11
For the time being attached pictures before and after renovation.
Great work! But need a new ENTERPRISE label at the front and recreate the serial number :-)
And now we know who bought this unit :-)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.April.21. 21:26:46
Already done. :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.02. 19:13:44
I'm done :)
EXDOS with two floppy drives connected via FlexiBridge (http://youtu.be/zn5DK-V7Fmw).
I used a modified drives Samsung SFD321B-LFEB. They are fixed to DS/DD mode (the factory does not have switches DD/HD).
I checked (http://youtu.be/yjadG3o7wiM) the operation of power circuits.
EXDOS card stabilizer warms up to a maximum of 41°C during operation of both drives (load approx. 0.9 A).
The stabilizer in FlexiBridge has a temperature of about 36°C.
The highest temperatures are in the rectifier Schottky diodes - up to 60°C (nothing serious, but warm).
The ammeter on video shows the total current. The computer itself draws 1.3 A (measure at picture below).
The prototype board has a few shortcomings (some bad connections, inverted bridge socket), but after a few corrections works properly
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.May.02. 19:20:32
Great work! :smt038

Little suggestion: with WD1772 use 3ms Step Rate, then the drive will be faster and more silent :-)
Write VAR 73,3 into EXDOS.INI or use modified ROM which sets it to 3 as default.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.02. 19:22:24
ROM version of EXDOS is 1.4 (modified in 2014 by Zozosoft :) )
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.May.02. 19:29:54
Try this.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.02. 19:35:34
I wonder if I can remove EPROM without unscrewing ? :oops:
It's time to get on with the card RAM/Flash/Clock.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: ssr86 on 2015.May.02. 21:01:02
Looks great
...So with this one can dig up his old PC 3.5" disc drive and use it with an Enterprise...or are there some restrictions or mods required?

(also where do you all get those stickers from?;P)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.02. 21:27:44
In FDD connect pin 2 Disk Change signal, pin 34 Ready signal , pin 10 Drive A Select or pin 12 Drive B Select.
The rest unchanged.
Stickers I made myself in CorelDRAW.
On one sheet of A4 self-adhesive paper to fit dozens of them (included in attachment) :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.May.06. 10:50:08
In FDD connect pin 2 Disk Change signal, pin 34 Ready signal
These not used by EXDOS at default, then not important.

Quote
, pin 10 Drive A Select or pin 12 Drive B Select.
Without this any drive can work as drive B:

I suggest add onboard jumpers for these on the next version. Then easy to use with original flat cable, or PC/AT type twisted cable (and no jumpers on drive), with any old or modern drives.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.06. 10:55:02
Good idea!
Earlier, I transformed already floppy disk drives for other platforms and already so out of habit modify the drive, not the interface :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.May.07. 14:52:13
Stickers I made myself in CorelDRAW.
Can I ask the .CDR file?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: ssr86 on 2015.May.07. 17:12:41
How much will the interface cost (after the changes proposed by Zozosoft, because I have some old drives, but I have no clue about soldering and electronics)?

offtopic:
Zozosoft,
you post too much;P (counter hit 10000)
;D
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.07. 19:14:13
The cost of the finished card EXDOS in the current version is 220 PLN (~ 55 EUR). With no drives.
Which proposals Zozo do you mean? When it comes to just about twisted PC cable, the cost will not change. As for the HD version, or turbo, is yet to be over them don't even wondered.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: ssr86 on 2015.May.07. 20:29:24
The cost of the finished card EXDOS in the current version is 220 PLN (~ 55 EUR). With no drives.
Which proposals Zozo do you mean? When it comes to just about twisted PC cable, the cost will not change. As for the HD version, or turbo, is yet to be over them don't even wondered.
:oops: Well I don't know if I really understood the propositions correctly.:oops: ...
I thought that the proposed changes would eliminate the need for modifications to the disc drives, but I don't know if that's even possible...
I have zero knowledge about this stuff so that would be really helpful to a simple enduser like me...

 
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.07. 20:58:01
Such a modification of EXDOS card, which will allow to connect the PC floppy drives without any modifications is only "minor cosmetic".
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2015.May.09. 09:58:49
Which proposals Zozo do you mean? When it comes to just about twisted PC cable, the cost will not change. As for the HD version, or turbo, is yet to be over them don't even wondered.
Probably the turbo enough for the All-in-one card.

Another question:
The two connector (edge and IDC for FlexiBridge) how connected?
I suggested to Bruce also add the FlexiBridge connector to the new LAN card. (http://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/wiznet-51005300-etc-and-enterprise/msg46552/#msg46552)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2015.May.09. 10:02:14
I can share FlexiBridge pinout after weekend.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Prodatron on 2015.May.09. 14:45:33
Zozosoft,
you post too much;P (counter hit 10000)
;D
Zozos position should be "EP legend" instead of "EP addict" :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: ssr86 on 2015.May.09. 14:50:10
Zozos position should be "EP legend" instead of "EP addict" :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
The total number of posts on the forum is ~45000, so nearly one quarter written by one person...:shock:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.July.26. 11:51:22
Second batch of Spanish Exdos clone cards (http://retrowiki.es/rw30/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=304&p=3548#p3548):

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13583266/Controladora%20Enter/IMG_2986.JPG)

They have used an old Speccy Divide case design to enclose it.

Good looking, isn't it?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: geco on 2016.July.26. 14:39:40
Good looking, isn't it?
Yes :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.July.26. 14:41:02
Nice!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Povi on 2016.July.26. 15:01:42
They have used an old Speccy Divide case design to enclose it.
What is a "Speccy Divide"?
But anyway, it's nice :-)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.July.26. 15:03:55
What is a "Speccy Divide"?
Divide (http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/spectrum/spectrum_storage.html)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Jungsi on 2016.July.27. 13:17:01
Is there a chance to get one of them? Or is it better to wait for a solution buy Pear? ;-)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.July.27. 14:22:42
You have to associate to the Spanish web page to talk with them. Probably they accept to make one more for you. They don't profit on the project.

But that clone is only an EXDOS card, nothing more. Pear plans are more long term but also with full equipment. Surely  more expensive because they are more complex, but he charge very little for his efforts...


Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.July.27. 19:08:32
My EXDOS card is ready (I have 2 pieces on stock).
After the vacation I will show a new project: EXDOS + RAM extension + FDD emulator (USB stick) with LCD.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.July.27. 22:14:38
That sounds very good...

Soon you will have options for everybody.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.19. 22:54:42
What is a "Speccy Divide"?
But anyway, it's nice :-)
This is the divide, an HD interface for the Spectrum:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/trctcf09ktfr3wm/div1b.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.19. 23:26:13
Deputy for which you need it, labels made by me, for the ExDOS controller and the Basic cartridge.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo6ie10sz0lcr5z/caratula%20cartucho.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/65zrsbxccgnqu8a/BUENO2.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kxqqgmcbrpedkfh/BUENO.JPG?raw=1)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: SlashNet on 2016.August.20. 14:42:17
Image for basic cartridge I have in vector.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.21. 17:03:34
Something like that.
EXDOS controller, 1MB of RAM, 512KB Flash and built-in FDD emulator drive with display (based on Gotek).
This is a preliminary draft and not yet counted the cost.
Recently, I have little time, so possible production time, it's probably early next year.

A few questions before I continued to work.
I used 8 MHz clock signal from the connector Enterprise.
Is it better to equip the card with its own generator ?

I also think about bridge-through connector on the right side, you can connect additional cards, but then probably the PCB will have to be 4-layers, which is more expensive.
Necessary ?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.21. 19:54:39
Indeed, they work fine. Seems that 74LS38 were used instead 7438 and they're giving some problems. He replaced two of three with real 7438 and the card looked more stable, he's now waiting for some 7438 to keep testing with all three replaced. The card is in a very alpha stage tho...

I think that once the prototype works, some optimizations will be performed on it.

I managed after several tests with 3.5 PC floppy drives that worked me luxury Retrowiki controller unit with double MicroPeripheals the QL .....

Yo he conseguido tras varias pruebas con disqueteras de PC de 3,5 que me funcionase de lujo, la controladora de Retrowiki con la unidad doble de MicroPeripheals del QL.....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.21. 20:36:30
Something like that.
EXDOS controller, 1MB of RAM, 512KB Flash and built-in FDD emulator drive with display (based on Gotek).
This is a preliminary draft and not yet counted the cost.
Recently, I have little time, so possible production time, it's probably early next year.

A few questions before I continued to work.
I used 8 MHz clock signal from the connector Enterprise.
Is it better to equip the card with its own generator ?

I also think about bridge-through connector on the right side, you can connect additional cards, but then probably the PCB will have to be 4-layers, which is more expensive.
Necessary ?
Your work is admirable, but the screen makes me jump tears ......
am very purist .......
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.22. 08:56:30
I'm not sure I understand correctly.
You cried in front of a monitor with happiness, whether your eyes are watering when you see such projects ? ;D
With what exactly I exaggerated in pure EP project ? :shock:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.August.22. 09:04:58
My question: why is it important to use floppy interface and floppy emulator hw between the Enterprise and the mass storage? :oops:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.22. 09:14:51
You can connect classic floppy drive as a second.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.August.22. 10:54:29
Why is floppy needed at all? :oops:
On other computers (CPC, Spectrum +3, Amiga, Atari ST, etc) lots of floppy oriented programs exist which only run from floppy, because they handle the disks directly. But on the Enterprise the programs use EXOS/EXDOS file system, not caring about the hw level of storage.
You can easily expand the EXDOS with storage drivers. I think the easiest solution would be to use CF cards, because these have a native 8 bit interface, then don't need any complex hw.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.22. 11:05:32
So, then FDD emulator falls.
Going forward, the floppy controller, falls too or stay ?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Tutus on 2016.August.22. 11:09:43
We prefer the FlexiBridge, IDE-CF and RAM-Flash-Clock cards are welcome :oops:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.August.22. 11:22:27
I think most people (especially the new users with tape only machines) need a somehow fast storage and some ROM for utilities and some memory expansion.
Old and/or hardcore users need a floppy (they have a lot of disks which need to be copied to modern storage and/or they like the nostalgie of floppy drives :-) ), but then with everything with possible, Turbo EXDOS (HD support), etc :-) floppy emulator is also possible, just for fun :-)

So I suggest one popular card with CF/512K Flash ROM/512k SRAM/Dallas RTC (with built in battery). This can be cheap because it isn't too complex.
And later all-in-one full extra deluxe solution for the hard core users.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Tutus on 2016.August.22. 11:32:02
I think ...

I fully support :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.22. 11:39:01
Fine. I'll go back to the old path ;)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.August.22. 17:44:56
I agree, a good interface with a fast and big storage media is much better than being limited to the space of a floppy.

With an interface based on floppyes, even emulated, you still have to interchange them. With big partitions the files can be organised  easily on directories. The Enterprise doesn't cares the media when the driver is properly written.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.24. 00:44:39
I just bought on ebay from Hungary, one ExDOS card with the bridge and manual.
I am very happy about it .....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.August.24. 07:34:03
I just bought on ebay from Hungary, one ExDOS card with the bridge and manual.
This is that? (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Enterprise-128-EXDOS-card-FREE-worldwide-tracked-shipping-/232042407034?hash=item3606ce247a:g:t0wAAOSw65FXqK0B)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.26. 01:08:23
I'm not sure I understand correctly.
You cried in front of a monitor with happiness, whether your eyes are watering when you see such projects ? ;D
With what exactly I exaggerated in pure EP project ? :shock:
It was a joke.
That screen is not seen good in a computer peripheral 1984
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.26. 01:12:06
This is that? (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Enterprise-128-EXDOS-card-FREE-worldwide-tracked-shipping-/232042407034?hash=item3606ce247a:g:t0wAAOSw65FXqK0B)
Yes.....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.26. 06:53:29
That screen is not seen good in a computer peripheral 1984
I can not do anything :)
More and more difficult for the components of that era :roll:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.August.26. 18:38:22
I can not do anything :)
More and more difficult for the components of that era :roll:

Pera, these are the ExDOS drivers that have been made in Retrowiki and Vade Retro in Spain:
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.26. 20:22:16
This is mine, but only EXDOS.
BTW I'm pear. Pera is my sister ;) Really :D
[attach=1]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.August.26. 22:22:40
Again a translator error.... pera is pear in Spanish...

Your sister is named Pera?

What a coincidence!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.August.27. 06:13:17
I know it ;)
My sister's nick is Pera since the trip to Spain :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szipucsu on 2016.August.28. 10:44:50
pera is pear in Spanish...
And in Italian, too. :D
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.September.11. 00:29:31
These are the prototypical items :) Not really beautiful :)
Fixed addressing. Decoder made on a single chip GAL.
In this version, I forgot about a few little things. I do not have far too many pics, because I have to refine the design.
This project is done in three days, because I was sorry to use the original FDD (serial number 607), which was barely saved.
For the time being attached pictures before and after renovation.

The new boxes are original, restored or made by you?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2016.September.11. 18:44:13
All original parts cleaned and restored.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.September.21. 00:45:05
I have already received the ExDOS controller
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/fucdpbx17ofu8e0/IMG_3058.JPG?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/et9a901c41gp4y5/IMG_3068.JPG?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/jzkjgthrjbfzbnp/IMG_3070.JPG?raw=1)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.September.21. 06:55:15
What is the serial number of the card?

What does the red button do on the System Bus Bridge?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Tutus on 2016.September.21. 09:39:53
I have already received the ExDOS controller

Beautiful :D
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.September.21. 10:13:07
The red button is unconnected, with no traces of once being welded.

Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.October.02. 02:31:28
What is the serial number of the card?

What does the red button do on the System Bus Bridge?

Serial number: 001676
The red button is not connected
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2016.October.02. 02:35:00
All original parts cleaned and restored.

An excellent job
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Jungsi on 2016.November.08. 19:31:10
Is there a place to download some disk images?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2016.November.08. 19:50:53
On the download section you can find a collection of images (https://enterpriseforever.com/downloads?dir=&download=Disks_ALL.zip), but a little outdated.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: geco on 2016.November.09. 08:38:00
or you can find on EP128.hu (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Emulator.htm) under Disk-image file-ok
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szipucsu on 2016.November.13. 19:54:07
or you can find on EP128.hu (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Emulator.htm) under Disk-image file-ok
That page has an English version too. (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Emulator_eng.htm)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: sinclair200 on 2017.February.16. 03:08:32
Zozo, I think it has a large collection of Enterprise and peripherals.
I would not have by chance the original box and the corks of the Exdos controller to sell me ....?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.04. 13:17:37
Since several people have been asking me for some time about able of purchase the EXDOS interface, I have refreshed the project.
It is even more compact, more compatible with newer drives and commonly used interlaced tape.
Optionally is available a connector for the second card (EPNET or ZX Spectrum Emulator).
The spacing of mounting holes in the card is compatible with the hole spacing in the 3.5" drive.
It will be a simple interface, without the fireworks that I am planning for the AMIO card (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/enterprise-all-in-one-interface-1176/msg68581/#msg68581).

For now, however, the Turbo card has priority.
In addition, the PCB contractor will celebrate the New Year almost until the end of February.
So it will be necessary to wait for the PCBs.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.February.04. 15:31:51
One extra easy added: if you use the original schematic, then the ROM socket is decoded to 20-2Fh. Then possible use ROM chips up to 256K just add a 32 pin socket. But if you keep the 28 pin, then please add A15 to pin1.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.04. 17:50:10
Actually, why not ? :)
Let it be DIP32.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.06. 20:53:53
I've redesigned the project. Now is DIP32 socket with config jumpers.
You can use EPROM, EEPROM, Flash ROM in DIP28 or DIP32 enclosures.
EPROM: 27C128, 27C256, 27C512, 27C010, 27C020
EEPROM: 28C256
E2EPROM: W27E040 (low half only)
FlashROM: 29F010, 29F020, 29F040 (low half only)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.February.06. 22:08:02
Perfect!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.07. 10:23:22
Hm, just add two more jumpers and SRAM 62256, 618128, AS6C1008, AS6C2008, AS6C4008 (low half) will also fit :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.February.07. 11:04:51
Yes, SRAM is also a good option if the EXDOS.Rom is already installed in, for example, the SD cartridge.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: BruceTanner on 2018.February.08. 14:04:12
Just so that you are aware: current versions of EXDOS will not run from FLASH if write is enabled because it does a write to its "ROM" assuming it is harmless. :roll: (and EXOS does the same!).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.08. 14:20:54
Just turn around P31 jumper from "/WR" to near "1" position to avoid a write :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.February.08. 18:31:02
Just so that you are aware: current versions of EXDOS will not run from FLASH if write is enabled because it does a write to its "ROM" assuming it is harmless. :roll: (and EXOS does the same!).
The problem only with certain FLASH chips which is using page mode (Winbond 29C,29EE and compatibles).
With the "normal" sector based types no problem (I used it many in Enterprise configs. It is also used on the SD interface).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.February.22. 19:01:54
I have managed to put in this little box a Spanish EXDOS clone and my old HxC...

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Z80System on 2018.February.22. 21:07:05
Quote
I have managed to put in this little box a Spanish EXDOS clone and my old HxC...

Wow. This looks cool ... :)

Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.February.23. 08:13:30
That's what I planned (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/creating-exdos-card-clone/msg57697/#msg57697) to do more than a year ago.
Then did not like it, but I'm going to come back to this idea.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.February.23. 11:08:48
I have made it in a cheap basis, a friend gifted me the bare board, then the components cost me about 20 Euro, and the box 5. Also, I have owned the HxC for about five years, with very little use since I have the SD reader cartridge.

At first the box only housed the EXDOS card with a lot of spare space(it has exactly the height of the Enterprise) and I used to put the HxC over the case.

I have to say, this EXDOS card was tailored to fit exactly on that box. It is one of the two separate series of EXDOS cards made by Spanish Enterprise users following original schematics.

This one has a very compact design, with only through-hole components.

(http://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/download/file.php?id=4855)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjdbvgin0h7sr6y/EXDOS.png?raw=1)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.March.03. 11:43:45
Wilco2009, the dessigner of this compact EXDOS clone, is modifying it for use with a Bridge connector or a bus expander.

Also, following the schematics of the Hungarian bus expander(and some advices from me) he has designed a compact three slots bus expander and an additional three slots card.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.March.03. 14:33:58
Yesterday I ordered 10 pcs of PCBs for my version of the card.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.March.03. 17:41:05
Yes, very good looking!

What Wilco2009(and I) intent is that the same EXDOS PCB design could be used directly on the Enterprise or by the bridge(or bus expander),  connecting pins A4 and B4 on the card to the 5v line, and soldering or not the comb of pins and the 7805 regulator.

Of course, to serve to the purpose, the card has to measure 95mm wide.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.March.03. 18:19:27
Pins next to edge connector may be use in two ways.
The first, to connect using the tape to FlexiBridge or second, use it to connect the next card (through the adapter).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.March.03. 18:48:40
Yes, I too want a sort of flexy-brige for the bus expander, but others like it solidly anchored to the Enterprise, so at the end an IDC type connector can also be soldered to the connector fingers.

I also have suggested to put double holes on every expansion socket, to use the classic edge connector way or convert all the expansion cards to IDC if needed, for better connexion.

The secondary expander card connects by IDC to the main bus expander card.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.March.11. 21:12:40
Searching on the Web  about DIY I/O MSX cartridges I  have found one (https://www.msx.org/news/hardware/en/rookie-drive-nx-virtual-usb-drive-for-msx) created around a curious chip that can suit us on Enterprise projects. The CH376S (http://www.mpja.com/download/ch376ds1.pdf) can be found alone as a 3,3v chip or in 3,3/5v USB and/or SD modules, commonly used on Arduino assemblies.

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1l7zXMXXXXXbHaXXXq6xXFXXXp/M-dulo-de-Tarjeta-TF-de-la-ayuda-U-disco-rat-n-USB-CH376T-3V5V-chip.jpg)

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1TQnDMXXXXXcGXXXXq6xXFXXXR/M-dulo-de-Tarjeta-TF-de-la-ayuda-U-disco-rat-n-USB-CH376T-3V5V-chip.jpg)

It can be accessed by SPI, serial, and the most important, parallel,Motorola or Intel(not the CH376T cut-down version).


Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.May.06. 18:24:53
I assembled one PCB for testing.
It worked flawlessly from the first switching on. No bugs :)
You can connect directly to the EP or via FlexiBridge (on video (https://youtu.be/8HVo93QF2u0) the card is connected via FlexiBridge).
You can use standard tape from PC and drive without any modifications (note: the drive must have a DD/HD switch, not all new drives are equipped with it).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.May.06. 19:01:44
Nice!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.May.06. 19:23:03
Super compact!

Where do you buy the WD1772? I have only found it for 40 Euro in UK....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.May.06. 19:47:29
I still have some supplies :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.May.07. 01:23:52
I have found an USA seller (http://www.best-electronics-ca.com) that has some juicy information about the WD1772 and the Atari Ajax clone:

Quote
Atari Ajax Floppy Disk Controller
(The little known Atari Custom made Smart Upgrade chip)

History:

When Atari Japan was Designing / Engineering the First Generation Atari ST Computer (Atari 520ST Computer with external Power Supply and external Floppy Disk Drive) back in mid 1985 era, they based the first series Atari 16 bit computers on the Motorola 68000 16 bit 8Mhz CPU, it supporting chips like the Motorola Multi Function Peripheral  (MFP) chip, and Atari Custom made ST Memory Management Unit (MMU), Glue (code named because it holds the ST System together), DMA (Direct Memory Access) and Video Shifter chips.  In 1985 one of the State of the Art Floppy Disk Controller chips was the Western Digital WD1772 720K SSSD / DSDD Floppy Disk Controller chip.  This is the ST Floppy Disk controller chip Atari Japan Engineering decided to use in the first Atari 520ST computer and all other Atari ST Computers right up the early 68000 16Mhz Atari TT Business Computers.

The subsequent Atari designed 68000 16 bit 8Mhz 1040STF, 520STFM, 1040STE, Mega 1/2/4, MegaSTE 68000 16Mhz and later 68000 32Mhz second generation TT Computers all used the same WD1772 Floppy Disk Controller chip to drive the ST SSSD or DSDD Floppy internal Disk Drive circuits over many years.  As time marched on, Atari Engineering was asked by Atari Marketing to the upgrade the stock Atari Top line TT Business Computers 720K Internal Floppy disk drives to the Newer (for that era) 1.44 High Density (HD) Floppy standard.  

Atari Japan Engineering challenge was to upgrade existing Atari TT Computers to the HD 1.44 Floppy Mechs without major circuit changes to the TT motherboards or major chip changes to on the TT Motherboards.  What was finally decided, was to use hand selected / tested WD1772 chips and over clock them (run them at a faster chip clock speed 8Mhz to 16Mhz).  The WD1772 chips were not originally designed run at the faster 16Mhz internal clock speed, but thru testing, some were found be able to run at the fast clock speed required for HD 1.44 Floppy operation.   With some TT TOS Operating System upgrades (New version TT TOS), New 1.44 HD TT Floppy Disk mechs and the Hand selected / Tested WD1772 chips, Atari was able to upgrade all older / early 16Mhz Atari TT’s and Newer 32Mhz TT’s computers to the HD 1.44 Floppy Disk standard.

Obsolete WD1772 Chip:

Years down line when the newer Atari MegaSTE and Atari Falcon computers were being designed, the old WD1772 chips were becoming obsolete.  Most Disk Controller chips of that era, were lucky to have a normal useful product life / run of 1 to 2 years at most.  Atari had been using the WD1772 Floppy Disk Controller chip in ST computers close to 7+ years.  Western Digital had not made any new production runs of WD1772 Disk Controller chips in years and could not be convinced to make a new run of that old Disk Controller chip.  To support the older Atari ST computer line, Atari had the VLS Chip Company get a license from Western Digital and make a small new production run of the older standard WD1772 Disk Controller chip in a VLS labeled chip package for Atari.

But the writing was on the wall.  Atari Engineering had to find a new ST Disk Drive Controller chip and do some ST Major chip set changes or whole new redesign on future Atari ST Computers in regards to the ST Floppy Circuit design.  What Atari Engineering came up with was a new custom made Upgraded / Smart Disk Controller chip which was backward and forward compatible on all older ST computers and fully compatible on Falcon computers and future ST computers.  That new smart chip is the Atari Ajax High Speed Floppy Disk Controller chip.  

Ajax Chip:

The New Atari Custom made Ajax Disk Controller chip is 100% pin to pin fully backward compatible with the older WD1772 chip on all older ST and other Computer and devices that use the WD1772 Floppy Disk Controller chip.  It is also a Smart Disk Controller Chip that can auto sense the input chip Mhz Clock speed and auto switch into the Newer HD 1.44 Floppy Mode standard.  So a new state of the art Atari Ajax Disk Controller chip can be plugged into the first 1985 Atari 520ST computer made and drive the ST 720K SSSD / DSDD floppy internal or external Disk drive Mech.  The same exact Atari Ajax chip can be plugged into the Floppy Disk circuit on the last state of the art Atari ST computer made, the 1992 Falcon 030 68000 16Mhz Computer and drive the Falcon 1.44 HD Floppy Circuit without any hardware changes.

.....
 
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.May.07. 09:07:40
I have found an USA seller (http://www.best-electronics-ca.com) that has some juicy information about the WD1772 and the Atari Ajax clone:
Todays I know these. But don't know anything about these when I created the Turbo EXDOS hack for handling HD disks on Enterprise.
Based on my experience: the WD1772 PH 02-02 chips can be used on 16MHz. These are also better than the others, because this version have a enhanced data separator. This can be read many faulty disks what the other controllers don't. (Then my suggestion for backing up floppies: use Enterprise with EXDOS card using WD1772 PH 02-02.)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.May.11. 13:00:57
First bus expander pcb mounted. It works as it should be....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: geco on 2018.May.11. 18:27:57
First bus expander pcb mounted. It works as it should be....
Looks good :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.May.25. 20:12:20
I have changed the EDGE connector of my floppy controller:

[attach=1]

The first card is the Spectrum emulator clon by Pear, the second the MSX adapter, and the third....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Dr.OG on 2018.May.26. 05:18:11
...a HxC?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.May.26. 10:58:45
Yes, it is a compact EXDOS+HXC.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.28. 21:02:50
And, what about a Compact EXDOS+Gotek on the same case?

Over the last year I have been asking to the Spanish developers to build a supermini Gotek that could suit all the computers provided with floppy controller, but nobody made their the idea...

Now Sellmyretro(not the cheapest web shop...) offers a mini Gotek (https://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/32413) that measures only 47x46mm, with a lot of headers to connect with cables an encoder, a buzzer, an Oled screen and an USB port, all included for 25 £+5 £ of registered post. An active Polish developer nicknamed Zaxxon is the creator. Probably Pear knows about him.

(https://www.sellmyretro.com/uploaded/img/lite.jpg)

It comes already programmed with the FlashFloppy firmware.

Imagine, a Gotek can control up to two drives,  A: and B: units internally, and you can still have physical units attached to the external Shuggart port of the EXDOS controller as C: and D: units....

There is also a Lite kit of only the PCB for 15+5 £.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.July.29. 10:06:18
An active Polish developer nicknamed Zaxxon is the creator. Probably Pear knows about him.
Yes, I know him. Tomorrow we grill together :D
Should I give any comments or suggestions ?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 10:29:16
Yes.... Give him congratulations from me for having such good idea....
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.July.29. 11:27:38
It comes already programmed with the FlashFloppy firmware.
Is available direct mode programing documentation for it?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.July.29. 16:02:08
https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 16:25:45
Yes, but what Zozo needs are the direct commands to access the USB pen-drive FAT16/32 format, not the selected disk image format.

There is information, but disperse. I have found some code (https://github.com/keirf/HxC_FF_File_Selector) about the modification made to the Amiga and Atari ST HxC managers to work with the new FlashFloppy firmware. But this is made in C, and Python, very different to what Zozo needs, direct hardware access.

I will try to ask directly to Keir Fraser (keirf) if I find a way to contact him.

Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 17:41:11
I have found his email address and sent him a petition. Probably we will have news from him soon.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 18:58:23
It has happened incredibly soon...

This is the complete conversation until now:

Hello Keir.

My name is Gustavo, and I am a Spanish enthusiast of the Enterprise computer.

If you don't know about it, it was a very advanced English designed computer from the early eighties. The company, Enterprise Computers LTD, went bankruptcy only two years later than the release of the computer, and all the stock sold at the other side of the Russian Iron Curtain on Hungary.

It is just because of this that almost all Enterprise users are Hungarians, with still very active clubs and web pages, like Enterprise Forever: https://enterpriseforever.com/index.php

The Enterprise was designed with an external floppy controller totally compatible with MS FAT12, and in the last years some HxC units have been adapted to the system, and later Gotek units with HxC firmware.

An user of the Enterprise Forever web page wrote on 2013 an HxC Manager that have suited us these years, but it doesn't works with your new firmware. The name of the developer is Zozo or Zozosoft( Nemeth Zoltán) and is, from my point of view, the highest guru of the Enterprise.

Zozo wants to adapt the Enterprise HxC Manager to your excellent firmware, and for it he needs to know what has changed on how to directly access the FAT16/32 format of the SD card or USB pen-drive, and how to directly select the disk images.

A lot of Enterprise+Flashed-Gotek users would appreciate if you could provide that information to Zozo...

I can act as a messenger if you want, or better you can join to the Enterprise Forever web page and givepersonally the information to  Zozo.


Thanks in advance and please continue with your good job.

---------------------------------------

Hi,

FlashFloppy is intended to be fully compatible with the hxc protocol. For example the Cpc file manager works fine with FlashFloppy and older versions of the Amiga and ST managers also worked (Jeff recently broke compatibility explicitly with FlashFloppy based on firmware reported version number).

So the incompatibility cannot be a major issue. The quickest resolution will be if Zozo is prepared to install a debug build of FlashFloppy on a Gotek. Then he can collect serial logs as his file manager runs and can see from FlashFloppy point of view what is happening. He will understand that with this insight on both sides of the protocol (file manager and firmware) that any bug will be easy to find, whether it is in his code or mine.

I can give further advice if useful.

Regards,
Keir 

---------------------------------------

I should add that of course because FlashFloppy is open source he can also read my protocol implementation. If he clones the github repo then the implementation is in src/image/da.c - and this is where he would add extra debug logging as required to pin down the incompatibility. 

---------------------------------------

Thanks Keir for your ultra fast response... I didn't expected it so soon...

Ok. I understand you, it is better to debug it practically with the real hardware and the logging option.

Thanks, I am going to communicate with Zozo immediately.

Gustavo.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 19:09:28
Keir has added:

Yes and the key is: there is no theoretical reason it is not working. 
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 19:25:05
A clarification about who is Jeff, mentioned in Keir's text:

The original HxC was created by Jean-François DEL NERO(Jeff), and is actually distributed by Lotharek. So it was Jeff who have been selling the HxC firmware for the Chinese Gotek, doing the competition to Lotharek...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.July.29. 19:33:39
In the Hungarian forum one user tried Gotek with FlashFloppy. My HxC Manager listed the files, only the mounting don't working. Config files looks diferrent. (My Manager using the HXCSDFE.CFG file) There is details about the FlashFloppy configuration files?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 19:42:36
I have recently received a flashed Gotek, but I am now on summer holidays until September, sorry.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.29. 20:03:58
Probably we no more need to convert the disk images to be recognised. We have to try the old DSK or IMG file images.

Yes, the config file seems to have more options.

And yes, I have been following Dr.OG's adventures with the drive units...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.July.29. 20:26:46
Yes, the config file seems to have more options.
Documentation about it? :oops:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szalai56 on 2018.July.29. 21:50:23
Kicsit off : pear, mennyi lenne egy exdos kártya esetleg 1772 nélkül?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.July.31. 15:58:37
I apologize for the delay, I had a few days leave.
The EXDOS Compact card without the WD1772 chip costs 49 EUR.
I have VL1772 chips for 9 EUR, which, as a replacement, work correctly in my card (I'm not sure if in the future they will work in HD mode).
------------------------
Elnézést kérek a késésért, néhány napot hagytam.
Az EXDOS Compact kártya a WD1772 chip nélkül 49 EUR.
VL1772 zsetonjaim vannak 9 EUR, amely helyettesítőként megfelelően működik a kártyámon (nem biztos, hogy a jövőben HD módban fognak dolgozni).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.July.31. 16:53:13
I have VL1772 chips for 9 EUR, which, as a replacement, work correctly in my card
It is work with simple EXDOS Format command?
VL1772 chips what we got about 25 years ago, can't format with EXDOS Format, it is say: *** Not ready...
My FAFO also worked with these chips.

I don't know, only this serie are buggy, or all VL1772 :oops: Can you test it?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.July.31. 17:02:05
I checked only the read and write. I did not check FORMAT :oops:
I will check.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.31. 20:43:46
Documentation about it? :oops:

It seems that the flashed Gotek will load the settings stored on its FlashRom, unless it finds the FF.CFG file on the root directory or the FF/ subfolder, that have new settings that will become the new default configs and will be stored on the FlashRom.  Once done we can delete or hide the FF.CFG file.

Here (https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki/FF.CFG-Configuration-File) you can find the possible options and defaults.

Also, in this page (https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki/Initial-Setup) it is explained the three working modes of the firmware, the HxC mode left as a legacy mode,  for Amiga, Atari ST, CPC and others.   
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.July.31. 20:54:47
Here (https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki/FF.CFG-Configuration-File) you can find the possible options and defaults.

Also, in this page (https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki/Initial-Setup) it is explained the three working modes of the firmware, the HxC mode left as a legacy mode,  for Amiga, Atari ST, CPC and others.
What I want to know: how change the mounted images from the host computer?

Probably you put a HXCSDFE.CFG then it is can be used?

Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2018.July.31. 21:29:09
I think you must study the da.c (https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/blob/master/src/image/da.c) file.

Keir claims the he has not changed the HxC mode, so probably the flashed Gotek uses the HXCSDFE.CFG file the same. If it doesn't finds the file it switches to native mode or indexed mode.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: tofro on 2018.July.31. 22:29:09
What I want to know: how change the mounted images from the host computer?

Here's the Manual:

https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard_HxC_Floppy_Emulator_Direct_Access_mode.pdf

You "move" the "head" to track 255, this switches the HxC to a special mode.
"Sector" 0 on "Track" 255 will then give you access to a status/control sector you can read and write to. Use the "struct direct_access_cmd_sector_" to write command 4 (SELECT_IMAGE_INDEX) with an appropriate image index.
Wait for one index pulse from the disk, then read sector 0 again to verify your command has been executed.

Once you "move" the "head" back to track 0, the image should be selected.

Using other commands, you can even achieve full LBA access to the complete SD card.

Tobias
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.01. 21:08:15
I checked only the read and write. I did not check FORMAT :oops:
I will check.
I checked.
Formatting works :)

Is 353 KB free the correct result ?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.August.01. 21:24:01
Is 353 KB free the correct result ?
Only if you use 360K drive :oops:
Which drive used?

I already found bug(?) in EXDOS, when checking SD/DD. But it is usually at old drives with head settle mechanism. Some of these drives don't execute stepping until the head loaded. Then the first few step in command lost, and when counting back the tracks got a false result, then detect as SD drive.
My trick for these drive: :DIR, then write the :FORMAT command under the results, go back with the cursor, press ENTER again on the DIR and at the end immediately and quickly press ENTER on FORMAT, and Yes on the question. If you do it before the motor stopped, then the FORMAT started on the fly, and the drive detected correctly.

In the FAFO I handled this situation (do one read before SD/DD detection). This is the one of the reasons why I started write my own formating program.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.01. 21:32:27
This is a 3.5 "DD / HD drive with a DD diskette.
Tomorrow I will try your trick.
Earlier, I did not pay attention to the capacity after formatting, but it seems to me that with the WD1772 chip was the same result.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.August.01. 21:34:13
This is a 3.5 "DD / HD drive with a DD diskette.
Which model? I will try to check same.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.01. 21:59:52
Samsung B321 or something similar.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.03. 20:31:05
With the trick works better - 712 KB free.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.05. 19:32:15
I tested today the FORMAT command on another card with the original WD1772.
The behavior is identical. The first FORMAT gives the result of 353 KB, and the second (with the trick) of 712 KB.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Dr.OG on 2018.August.06. 05:55:20
I use FAFO25, this works always flawless without tricking.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.August.06. 11:45:32
I tested today the FORMAT command on another card with the original WD1772.
The behavior is identical. The first FORMAT gives the result of 353 KB, and the second (with the trick) of 712 KB.
It is looks the know slow-drive-DD-detection bug, not releated about the controller type.

I use FAFO25, this works always flawless without tricking.
:ds_icon_cheesygrin:
As I wrote previously, I added workaround to the FAFO avoid this problem.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.August.14. 20:49:32
The EXDOS Compact card without the WD1772 chip costs 49 EUR.
Can I ask a prices without ROM chip and 1772? And full complete with 256K Flash and 1772?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.August.14. 21:02:42
The assembled card without ROM and WD1772 is 45 EUR.
A complete card costs 64 EUR.
Previously, it was 60 EUR, but the new lot of WD1772 chips cost me twice as much as the previous one (15 USD/pcs) :(

I have only two last cards yet from this batch.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2018.September.02. 13:55:46
I ordered a dozen more PCBs.
It should be enough.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2018.September.02. 15:51:11
I ordered a dozen more PCBs.
It should be enough.
:smt038
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szalai56 on 2019.January.05. 15:28:42
Hi pear!
I should have a floppy controller without wd. What a plug it would be because I would ask for it from gflorez to the expansion card.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.January.05. 15:46:37
I don't understand what exactly you mean.
You mean something like that (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/msx-slot/msg72452/#msg72452) ?
(https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/msx-slot/?action=dlattach;attach=21904;image)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szalai56 on 2019.January.05. 17:36:26
Yes, I have to ask for this supplement from gflorez.
I'm writing a private message.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.19. 15:34:44
The price of the WD1772 chip has increased to a ridiculous level.
WD1770 and VL1772 also can be used.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.19. 15:57:54
Same. Prices start at $ 25 per piece right now. In addition, it is becoming increasingly difficult to access.
I'm starting to think about a replacement in CPLD or FPGA.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.19. 18:27:05
Same. Prices start at $ 25 per piece right now. In addition, it is becoming increasingly difficult to access.
I see VL1772 for a 12.95€, WD1770 for a 5-10$ on Ebay.
Quote
I'm starting to think about a replacement in CPLD or FPGA.
Anyway will be good idea!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.23. 18:45:20
I see VL1772 for a 12.95€, WD1770 for a 5-10$ on Ebay.Anyway will be good idea!
I bought 10 pieces of VL1772 on eBay for 15 EUR/pc.
I received the parcel today and checked all the chips. At first glance, they work - they read floppy disks correctly.
Unfortunately, ALL of them can't properly format a floppy disk.
You have been warned :evil:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.23. 20:10:32
Unfortunately, ALL of them can't properly format a floppy disk.
What happen with my FAFO?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.23. 20:37:54
No difference. Even "on hearing" is something wrong when formatting.
A good chip walks along paths at regular intervals.
Defective sometimes stops for longer over one path, and sometimes it quickly skips several.
At the end of the formatting, the message "Sector not found".
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.23. 21:39:25
This one working:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]

And already see dozens in EXDOS cards under the decades.

Only one serie will be strange about 26-27 years ago: it is don't format with EXDOS command, says Not Ready at the start. But worked well with FAFO.

When EXDOS 1.4 developed I wanted to retest this problem, but don't find any of these chips, all worked flawlessly. Still will be interesting for EXDOS 3 development :-)

What will be happen with these chips? Can you send back?
If no, then can you send me one for testing?
I also have a ZX Spectrum SpeccyDOS and Atari ST, both with 177x chip.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.24. 05:52:55
But I still have more than a dozen pieces of functional VL1772 (Taiwan production).
The inscriptions look similar to your picture.

However, these below do not work (Korea production).

In Atari and ZX Spectrum also do not work.
Similar symptoms - uneven transition between tracks.
A colleague bought 20 pieces :|

I want to return them. I lodged complaint. I am waiting for a response
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.24. 09:29:55
It is crazy :-( Then need to avoid Korean version...

It is looks similar story to Made in Philippines Z80 CPUs. (https://enterpriseforever.com/interface-57/epromflash-romsram-expansions/msg38679/#msg38679)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2019.May.24. 09:55:56
A lot of time has passed, but it is good to complete information.

That link from Zozo follows to other link to a picture (http://enterpriseforever.com/hardver/hibaelharitas/?action=dlattach;attach=712;image) of three defective Philipines Z80 chips. On that thread I told about a lot of problems found while expanding a Microteam expansion card.

Later, I took out that Z80 to do a turbo hack on my computer. This is the back of the removed processor:

[attach=1]

My other EP was also in time modified to turbo, but it had a SGS Z80 clone installed.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.24. 10:42:19
As for the Z80 processors, the cause is known.
There were a series of processors with a damaged M1 line (or damaged in exploatation, in ZX Spectrum M1 is near a +9V power line on the edge connector).
From my observations, the M1 signal can be damaged in two ways:
The first - the M1 line is completely dead;
Second - the frequency on the M1 line is half as high as it should be (the correct frequency is between the CPUclk/7 and the CPUclk/4).
Both cause problems in interfaces that use the M1 signal.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.24. 11:32:51
Yes I know about ZX-M1 problem. But on the Enterprise the Dave already use the M1 for set memory waits, then immediately can notice if it is not working.
And on Spectrum M1 used for a "overwrite ROM" trick, executed address decoded in ROM, and the expansion page in their ROM, for modifi the original ROM program. This is the only way expand the closed system of Spectrum.
This trick don't needed on EP, because the EXOS have a nice expansion possibilities.

The bad Z80s what I noted: can't write to memory! Can read memory, can execute program, can read IO, can write IO... just memory write don't work... some are total, some are unreliable. All are from machine which is worked, stored for a few decades, and don't start now.
The problematic ones what Gflorez mentioned have a problem with memory expansions, especially with modern Flash/SRAM chips.
I think will be possible if retesting these chips after 5-10 years, then there is a completly no memory write problem...
It is a theory: plastick package of chips sometime not fully hermetic and the chip parts can corrode over the decades. Some lower quality production serie will make series of similar faults in a similar chips.
Similar example the Newtronics dead head problems in Commodore 1541 drives.

Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.26. 21:44:16
The seller demanded to prove that the chips have a defect.
So I prepared a movie (https://youtu.be/IfKzST2VTXw).
Have a nice watch.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.26. 22:38:07
Very interesting!
Just for curiosity: what happen with two drives, COPY from one full disk to empty, formated disk?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.27. 05:49:52
When the diskette is formatted, everything is fine.
The faulty series can not only format floppy disks.

But I'm not sure what will happen when copying a file that takes, for example, half a floppy disk or more.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.28. 16:14:13
I digged out two Korean VL chip:
This one, with 1988 w13 date code, works normaly.
[attach=1][attach=2]

Another one from my bad chips box, date code 1987 w02. Looks same with Pear chip!
[attach=3][attach=4]
And probably same fault?
I also made some videos (head step too quiet, turn up volume :-) )
EXDOS FORMAT (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E0c3kgDSoXg9lg0oT8rsicYNkweY4hLx/view?usp=sharing)
The head many times go out to Track 0. Then overwrite previous tracks, not a surprise the Sector not found at the end...
Probably sometimes Restore command executed instead the Step In?

EPDOS formating. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DscmQFZw1Jh39AkK6kRk80F2yFeJPx-0/view?usp=sharing) Total crazy, the head most of time restored to tr0...

FAFO formating. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dw4b9ENwGlvl2bCSvZaGh51dXHisu6Gf/view?usp=sharing) Works normally :ds_icon_cheesygrin: I don't know yet which are help: using my own WD177x routines instead of EXDOS DISKIO? Or just the reverse direction formating, where Step Out used instead the Step In?

Next test is a copy:
COPY disk to RAMDISK, with a good chip. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E1KzP2lmRUoAwUrP-G11Py9_jkaw1hac/view?usp=sharing) Normal head movement, go to tr0 only for a next FAT or root DIR sector or file entry.

Same COPY with the bad chip. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DrExZ1CbMVMDdyg2OEfYSMfIxHoHJrom/view?usp=sharing) There is some extra head movement. The EXDOS retry mechanism handled it, no error, just about 15-16 secs longer the operation than the normal.

I also tried EPDOS copy, it is generate many Sector not found error, and press Retry to continue. (No auto retry mechanism) I think this is why I putted this chip to the "bad chips box" many years ago.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.28. 17:48:19
Are you sure those 813 V L657S are working ?
Because I can to exchange them.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.28. 18:13:57
Also tested it today and worked normally. Tomorrow i can make few hours more testing.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.28. 18:28:04
I will be grateful :)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.May.29. 10:47:59
Tested it for about two hours. Dozen disk formated, also including 10 and 11 sectors format, both with EXDOS and EPDOS. Disks copied with COPY, EPDOS Copy and Diskcopy. Working flawlessly.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.May.29. 10:58:46
Thanks
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.June.03. 23:01:44
FAFO formating. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dw4b9ENwGlvl2bCSvZaGh51dXHisu6Gf/view?usp=sharing) Works normally :ds_icon_cheesygrin: I don't know yet which are help: using my own WD177x routines instead of EXDOS DISKIO? Or just the reverse direction formating, where Step Out used instead the Step In?

I asked Bruce for make a EXDOS 3 test version with a reverse direction FORMAT.
There is the results, with the bad VL chip. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E8GSj243E2zFCJ1JlBU-sr1bY2YosRSG/view?usp=sharing)
After few track the head restored to Track 0. Because the disk are previously formated, then the verify phase also can run. It is many time reseting the head, but the diskio auto retry handle the problems.

Summary: the problem don't depend from which Step (In or Out) used. But still there is the big question: how possible the FAFO are working with these bad chip? :oops:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.June.04. 05:52:39
I have a theory.
The defective VL works properly in the Timex FDD3000 disk drive.
In the original, WD1770 was used there.
Perhaps the faulty VL have a problem with stabilizing parameters when working with shorter access times ?
Maybe your FAFO works a little slower than the original FORMAT ?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.June.04. 09:56:19
The defective VL works properly in the Timex FDD3000 disk drive.
Least one place where it is working :-)

Quote
In the original, WD1770 was used there.
EXDOS originaly also use 1770. (http://ep.homeserver.hu/Galery/Bovitmenyek/Picture/EXDOSPCB1.JPG)


Quote
Maybe your FAFO works a little slower than the original FORMAT ?
No, it is FAst FOrmat :-)
But very possible some timing are different. I wrote my 177x routines from a Enterpress article. Now I know it is a summary of WD datasheet. It is talked abaout command codes, but don't too much about timing. Then I set these by practical experience. For example the article don't talked about need to wait after write command for can read status. It is a surprise for me :-) Then I putted some PUSH/POP for a waits. Is possible some better codes, which is used the original datasheet, have a shorter waits because use the exact timings.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.June.06. 10:58:26
Same COPY with the bad chip. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DrExZ1CbMVMDdyg2OEfYSMfIxHoHJrom/view?usp=sharing) There is some extra head movement. The EXDOS retry mechanism handled it, no error, just about 15-16 secs longer the operation than the normal.
Update: it is only with EXDOS 3, with EXDOS 1.x about 35 Not read question during the COPY :oops:
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.June.06. 13:22:15
The defective VL works properly in the Timex FDD3000 disk drive.
In the original, WD1770 was used there.
Perhaps the faulty VL have a problem with stabilizing parameters when working with shorter access times ?
Maybe your FAFO works a little slower than the original FORMAT ?
I think I found the problem:
The Seek command don't reliable these faulty chips. Sometimes execute Restore instead of Seek (only one bit difference in command code!)
My FAFO only using Step In/Out commands, when Seek needed it is done by steps cycle.
EXDOS FORMAT use DISKIO calls which is use a general head positioning routine. It is don't care about if only one track step needed, always using the Seek command.

Probably that Timex drives also only use Step commands. There is disassembly of their ROM?

If my theory right then the faulty chips also will works with the Hungarian SpeccyDOS disk interface (for a ZX Spectrum), least with 4S ROM (it is developed for a old slow drives, where the 1772 step rates too fast. This ROM using Step cycles with a CPU delays for simulate the different step rates from 2 to 30ms).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.June.10. 06:14:01
Probably that Timex drives also only use Step commands. There is disassembly of their ROM?
It looks like it is :)
Code: ASM
  1. ;==================================================================================================
  2. ; L29b0 Format next track (step in, format)
  3. ;
  4. ;==================================================================================================
  5. L29b0:  ld   a,$01
  6.         ld   ($26a1),a
  7.         ei  
  8.         ld   a,$58
  9.         out  ($c0),a    ; command $58 - step-in, update track register, spin up
  10.         halt
  11.         halt
  12.         halt            ; wait 3 tracks
  13.  

and then $fe - write track, no spinup, 30ms delay, no precomp
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.August.10. 21:45:40
Are you sure those 813 V L657S are working ?
Because I can to exchange them.
What happen finaly with your chips?

After some investigation now it is sure: the Seek command are the problematic in the fauilty VL1772 chips. Sometimes execute Restore instead of Seek.

To the DRVTEST (will be released soon) added a verification for a Seek commands, and report error if the head went to Track 0 when it is not expected. Then easy to see if the chip faulty.
At a manual seeks:
[attach=1]

During a test cycle:
[attach=2]

Test ended with tons of errors:
[attach=3]

Bruce built in a alternative seek mode to the program, which is use cycle of step command, it is called Stepseek mode.
In this mode the faulty chip works correctly:
[attach=4]

This mode will be built in to the EXDOS 3, then it is can work with these faulty chips.

Meanwhile I found another bad chip, got it from a Commodore 1571 drive (where probably no anyone using the MFM mode in the last 30 years :-D ). It is have a 1986 week 33 datacode.
[attach=5]

Now I ordered cheap 5x pack WD1770 from a Aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33021653998.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.708f45cb8mgj9S&algo_pvid=9f3953e9-c722-4c72-b685-5f55dec7fdd4&algo_expid=9f3953e9-c722-4c72-b685-5f55dec7fdd4-1&btsid=f822e465-2e02-4039-898c-32c006c5aa64&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_60) Let's see these are working or not :-)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.August.21. 09:43:19
Finally, the seller replaced the faulty chips with other from 813V L657S series.
This series works fine. I checked all the pieces.
For a change, IMO, they makes too hot. I did not check to what temperature.
It is possible that overheating will cause some errors, but this should be carefully checked.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.August.21. 09:59:20
Finally, the seller replaced the faulty chips with other from 813V L657S series.
This series works fine. I checked all the pieces.
Great news!

Quote
For a change, IMO, they makes too hot. I did not check to what temperature.
Yes, it is a know the VL are more hot than WD.

Quote
It is possible that overheating will cause some errors, but this should be carefully checked.
But this is only make a problem when overclocking to 16MHz for using a HD disks.
For example there is Pertik Laci's Turbo EXDOS card, he are used a fan on the card (http://pertik.hu/szamtech/Sajatgep/Ep-m10.jpg). When VL1772 overclocked. (http://pertik.hu/szamtech/Sajatgep/Ep-m16.jpg)
Few years ago it is replaced by WD1772, then fan not required even using a HD disks.
(The Turbo EXDOS 1.3 ROM left the last used clock on the chip. In a EXDOS 3 only at R/W operation used the turbo clock, then switch back to the normal 8MHz, for a less stress on the controller chip, and also solve the step rate problem.)

On a normal DD usage don't problem with VL. (with a good chips :-) )
I read same experiences at Atari ST forums.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2019.August.21. 10:06:26
I also observed over-heating on some clones I bought on USA to the Atari supplier.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.August.23. 19:38:32
8921 date coded also looks good, tested two of them.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.August.27. 19:30:45
This version of VL1772 works best.
Without errors. No overheating.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.August.27. 20:02:01
This version of VL1772 works best.
Nice young one :-) Manufactured in 1992.
It is one piece find? Or still available in somewhere?
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2019.August.27. 20:18:10
I bought 20 pieces a few years ago.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Zozosoft on 2019.October.09. 21:50:55
Now I ordered cheap 5x pack WD1770 from a Aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33021653998.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.708f45cb8mgj9S&algo_pvid=9f3953e9-c722-4c72-b685-5f55dec7fdd4&algo_expid=9f3953e9-c722-4c72-b685-5f55dec7fdd4-1&btsid=f822e465-2e02-4039-898c-32c006c5aa64&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_60) Let's see these are working or not :-)
Arrived :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
Extreme slow shipping, more than 1 month until the seller dispatched it... plus the usual shipping time from China.
But it was worth the wait!

These are really NOS chips :!: , not a relabeled/refurbished/fake what I expected :lol:
All working normally.
[attach=1][attach=2]
[attach=3][attach=4]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2019.October.10. 01:07:18
Great opportunity!
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2020.June.07. 00:48:26
I have made a new video.

A FlexiBridge PCB from Pear(Poland) has arrived to my hands and I can't resist to connect it to my Enterprise.

It is a buffered expansion card that allows to connect several expansions without problems. The original idea was to connect a 64 leads flat cable to it, and then, at the other tail connector, a train of expansions that would link between them to the cable in a row.
It is flexible also in its conception, because both classic or actual expansions can be connected to it. But only +9v are passed to the cable, so every expansion has to create its own +5v.

On the Mészáros' Bus Expander(Wilco's Bus Expander is based on it), a total of 27 signal lines where buffered with 2  74LS244 and 2 74LS367, while on the FlexiBridge from Pear the buffered signals are also 27, but made with 4 74LS245. I have to say that on the Enterprise every expansion has to provide buffers(74LS245) for that bus, so at the end a total of 35 lines are protected.

The name "Bridge" comes from Enterprise Computers, and it was an 1-slot-only bus expander to connect the EXDOS interface, already designed to be plugged on a never released original Bus Expander. On that Expansion Motherboard (http://enterprise.iko.hu/schematics/A3PER-12_Enterprise_64-128_Expansion_Motherboard_Schematic.jpg), 4 74LS244 would be used, and a fifth 74LS245 for the Data Bus direction, making a total of 40 protected lines.

Just for the test, I have made a "RigidBridge" with one of my spare Bus Expander PCBs, bypassing the buffer chips on it. The only precaution to connect the two boards is to jump one pin on the not used 4A/B contacts, because the FlexiBridge  uses only 64 leads to make a more standard flat cable, as advised on the original IS papers.

You can see on the video that the SymbiFace3 and the EXDOS+HxC work perfect connected to it.
Sorry for the clipping sound on the Webradio app, on my house the Wifi station is far from my "laboratory".



Thanks Pear for the information about your great FlexiBridge.

https://youtu.be/LU2Re95Zcwg
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2020.September.01. 19:13:55
As I will not be making EXDOS cards anymore using the generic WD1772, because of the difficulties in purchasing and the absurd price of this chip, I provide on the WIKI the card documentation (https://wiki.enterpriseforever.com/index.php?title=EXDOS_by_pear#Documentation).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2020.September.01. 21:25:31
Great!

But don't leave other wonderful projects you may have.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Allf on 2020.September.01. 21:35:49
I'm sorry you had to make that decision.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2020.September.02. 06:35:54
I wrote just that I will not make cards with generic WD1772.
I did not write that I will not make any EXDOS cards anymore.
I'm looking for other solutions.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2020.September.13. 10:43:22
I have found some tested WD1772 00-02 chips on this UK page (https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2020.September.13. 19:18:31
Is it a proven supplier ? Someone has already shopped there ?
Payment by card only directly from the site. Too risky without checking.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2020.September.13. 21:41:56
Sorry, it is the first this time I see the website.

They have a huge amount of WD chips, also VL. They warn that these chips get hot... It seems they know what they say.

1 pound is almost 1 Euro now and they still are Communitarian...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Wolfgang on 2020.September.14. 08:29:48
Is it a proven supplier ? Someone has already shopped there ?
Payment by card only directly from the site. Too risky without checking.

Exxos (Chris) is a well known person in the ATARI scene. Many years ago, I financed the last run of the PeST mouse controller by him and never had a problem. He had bad experiences with Paypal and therfore refuses to use it.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2020.September.14. 09:24:10
Ok. Thanks for the info. It's time for shopping ;)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: gflorez on 2020.September.14. 09:57:53
Great to read that Pear wants to buy more WD chips. That means for me that his fine EXDOS controllers continue in production.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2020.September.14. 17:03:01
I ordered 15 pieces. We'll see what comes out.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Allf on 2020.October.05. 09:41:11
Quote
I have found some tested WD1772 00-02 chips on this UK page.

The chips ordered from the link attached by gflorez have arrived today. Operation check not performed.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Tutus on 2021.January.13. 21:25:30
I took a good bath with that ...
Why is it that the Pear EXDOS case is not good for my Pear EXDOS card? Doesn't fit, much higher. It is very sad...

(https://enterpriseklub.hu/images//138372016_957848711285672_2640809999861853471_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Judge on 2021.January.13. 22:43:40
I think the box was designed for this version ...

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Allf on 2021.January.14. 05:36:48
The box was made for another version.
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: pear on 2021.January.14. 05:37:31
I took a good bath with that ...
This is the first version of the card. Very rare ;) There are only 5 of them.

The housing was designed for the second version (about 40 made).
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Tutus on 2021.January.14. 09:48:53
Then I have a sales box for version 2.0
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: Allf on 2021.January.14. 10:22:00

You already have the box, you need to add a new version that knows more ...
Title: Re: Creating EXDOS card clone
Post by: szalai56 on 2021.January.14. 10:29:14
Then I have a sales box for version 2.0
Nekem jöhetne, ha eladó lenne.