Enterprise Forever

:UK => Hardware => Input devices => Topic started by: pear on 2016.January.31. 17:21:23

Title: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 17:21:23
Keyboard issue (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/entermice-joy-ps2-mouse-interface/msg50144/#msg50144) solved :)
The solution is a small PCB board with dimensions of 17 x 28 mm.
It is made of laminate having a thickness of 0.6 mm.
Just plug it between the plate and the keyboard tape.
The housing is closed with no problem.
Attached Gerber files for PCB.
Used Schottky diodes BAT85.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.January.31. 17:47:08
And when can we order it ?! :)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 17:56:49
At the moment I still have 9 pieces (trial series, because I was not sure whether it will fit under the housing).
The price of one assembled fixer is 3,50 EUR.
If need more, I order a new one.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.January.31. 18:00:20
I would like to get 4 of it. But the timing is not important, so you can schedule it as you or others wish ...
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: gflorez on 2016.January.31. 18:07:41
I would like to get 4 of it.

Observe that an Enterprise only needs one adapter...
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 18:09:45
@Z80System: I'll be in a week send to you a package, so there is no reason to wait.
@gflorez: Yes, just one fixer for 10-signal keyboard tape.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.January.31. 18:09:53
:) !
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.January.31. 18:14:49
Quote
I'll be in a week send to you a package, so there is no reason to wait.
Yes, just one fixer for 10-signal keyboard tape.

I just wanted not to make anybody to wait their ones because of my "mass order" ... :)

So if there aren't other ones ordering the stuff, you can send to me the above 4 one,
or you can wait a few days the others ordering the current ones,
and you can send me my whole packet (with the mice stuffs) after some time, too.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 18:17:25
It makes no sense to pay twice for the shipment.
Sometimes you have to have some luck :)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.January.31. 18:25:29
okey - dokey ...
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.January.31. 18:57:29
It is possible another version where long cable between the keyboard connector and the fixer? And another one (without diodes) for the another keyboard connector?
The most popular problem with the old membranes when too many needed cuted of (because cracked wires) and then not enough long for can be connected to the motherboard.
I think I have least 10-15 membranes with this problem...
With combined extender-fixer can solve this popular problem. If it is enough cheaper than one new membrane :-)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.January.31. 19:00:29
Old, ugly home made version :oops:
[attach=1][attach=2]
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 19:11:31
Like that ?
I've seen these pictures before.
I done such PCBs in case when the fixer did not fit the housing (then I'd angular version).
I have at the moment 20 such PCBs (1,50 EUR/pcs).
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.January.31. 19:17:13
I also have a PCB for second connector (1 EUR/pcs) :)
Inside the ZX Spectrum is identical :)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Bagpuss22 on 2016.February.01. 00:16:44
@Pear, where is a good place to get the keyboard connectors?  I could do with an 8 and 9 way for my SAM Coupe.

I would also be interested in a set of your boards for my EP64.

Thanks

Russ
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.01. 06:41:58
Here you go, big choice.
TME.EU (http://www.tme.eu/gb/katalog/#id_category=112938&page=1&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASC)
(http://static2.tme.eu/products_pics/4/6/c/46ceaf34d8d923385b6bd1bd59b7fa2c/358069_t.jpg)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Bagpuss22 on 2016.February.01. 11:33:33
Here you go, big choice.
TME.EU (http://www.tme.eu/gb/katalog/#id_category=112938&page=1&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASC)
(http://static2.tme.eu/products_pics/4/6/c/46ceaf34d8d923385b6bd1bd59b7fa2c/358069_t.jpg)

Thank you!
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: fatbob_gb on 2016.February.01. 15:44:15
I would like a couple of units for my Enterprise as well please
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: gflorez on 2016.February.01. 17:30:06
I would like a couple of units for my Enterprise as well please

ONE Enterprise only needs ONE adapter...
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.01. 19:56:45
Does anyone ever tried to count how many pieces of Enterprise is on this forum ?
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.February.01. 20:00:46
Does anyone ever tried to count how many pieces of Enterprise is on this forum ?
Yes :-) (http://enterprise.iko.hu/inventory.htm)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.01. 20:06:04
How many pieces is on the list (I don't want to count) ?
Please sign of my three (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/your-enterprise-configuration/msg47392/#msg47392) :)

EDIT: I ordered an additional 40 pieces of PCB for fixers. It should be enought.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Zozosoft on 2016.February.05. 11:51:01
What is will be the price for the simple fixer, and the combo version (fixer+extender, assembled)?
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.05. 12:21:48
Simple fixer as I wrote earlier 3,50 EUR.
Combo, or fixer + cable + PCB with connector for the keyboard tape ? Approx. 8 EUR
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.February.27. 13:22:15
It would be good to have an explanation of the problem from a user's perspective, without any electronical knowledge involved.

When will the problem exist ?
When a user use multiple key combination and control ports at once ?
Is using keyboard and joystick not simultaneously OK?
Is this keyboard fixer recommended only when somebody use EP with entermice, and SHIFT/CONTROL + mouse move/click can be used frequently ?
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: gflorez on 2016.February.27. 15:18:52
You can see the problem with any game, playing with an external joystick while pressing ramdomly the keyboard.

But the mouse needs accurate readings and the errors are greater than with a joystick.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.27. 15:43:04
When will the problem exist ?
When a user use multiple key combination and control ports at once ?
Yes. The problem arises, when using the joysticks ports and keyboard at the same time.

Is using keyboard and joystick not simultaneously OK?
Yes.

Is this keyboard fixer recommended only when somebody use EP with entermice, and SHIFT/CONTROL + mouse move/click can be used frequently ?
Not only. Also, when using the joystick and keyboard at the same time.

No diodes on the keyboard lines can cause glitches during the reading of the control ports while pressed a few keys at once.
Keyboard fixer eliminate this problem entirely.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.February.27. 16:00:09
Quote
Also, when using the joystick and keyboard at the same time

Okay, technically speaking, but are there situations when the user is using keyboard an joystick at the same time ?

Mosue and keyboard is a situation I understood, but external joy and keyboard simultaneously is not a real-life use case ... is it ?
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.27. 16:11:46
Why not ?
You playing with joystick and at the same time you change options by keyboard.
There are no such cases ?
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.February.27. 16:24:28
Quote
There are no such cases ?

Maybe for others ...

For myself, if I have to use keyboard in a game, I use fully keyboard or internal joy.

I do not remember a game where ext+key goes for me ...


But okay, I understood the thing from a user's perspective ....


By the way, I just implied one of the fixers to one of my daily machines ... :)


By the way again, are you sure that there is enough room for the fixers in the case (in height) ?

Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.27. 16:28:56
In my EP fixer a fit and case closed without a problem.
(http://wiki.enterpriseforever.com/images/thumb/3/3f/KbdFixerConnected.jpg/800px-KbdFixerConnected.jpg)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.February.27. 16:31:47
Yes, I was able to fit and close the case, too.

But somehow the suspicion is raised ... maybe it is too close ... but I did not see, and I did not measeure or dissassembly again because of it ...
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: pear on 2016.February.27. 16:35:34
If the fixer entered to an end in the nest, it is OK, and the keyboard tape can move freely between fixer and housing.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: Z80System on 2016.February.27. 16:39:39
Quote
If the fixer entered to an end in the nest, it is OK, and the keyboard tape can move freely between fixer and housing.

Okay, next time I will pulling/pushing the keyboard tape verifying that, thanks. (Now I do not disassembly only for this.)
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: gflorez on 2016.February.27. 17:47:18
May be, it is a fact, that in a steady and "normal"use the error has not been detected in thirty years....

But when I am testing an artefact's operation I like to try all possibilities of use. Is for that I discovered the glitch in the movement of the pointer when some keys where pressed. Then Pear explained why it happened and figured out this fixer.
Title: Re: Keyboard fixer
Post by: kvaczko on 2023.May.22. 20:22:47
Maaaaargit!!! Noooooormális?! Billentyűfólia-hosszabbító?!? Hát ez értelmetlen, mint a kőolajfinomító!

Pedig van értelme. 🙂 Kedvenc gépünk egy tipikus kopóalkatrésze a billentyűzetfólia, aminél ha a gombokkal nincs is baj, a fólia egyszer tutira eltörik vagy eloxidálódik az alaplapi csatlakozónál, amiből aztán vissza kell vágni. Majd megint. Majd megint… Csak épp közben annyira megrövidül az a fólia, hogy már nem lehet összecsukni a gépet… Ezen segít a Keyboard Extender, az első flexibilis nyákra készült kiegészítőm. A hosszabbító gyárilag tíz centis, de a csatlakozót 2cm-nként bárhova lehet forrasztani, így pontosan akkorára tudod vágni, amekkora kell.

Emellett van rajta tíz dióda, ezt Maciej Gruszecki álmodta meg annakidején (ebben a topikban), ami a külső joystick és a belső billentyűzet összeakadását hivatott megszüntetni.

A komplett kit ára: 2222 Ft+1000 Ft a FoxPost, vagy személyes átvétel a következő klubnapon az Astoriánál. A diódák igen, de a csatlakozók (mivel te tudod, hogy hány centi lesz a kényelmes) nincsenek beforrasztva, ez DIY, de maguk a csatlakozók természetesen a kit részei. A vásárlással az Enterprise Klubot is támogatod.

Természetesen Zoltán Németh-nél az EP Szervízben is napokon belül lesz készlet, így aki egyéb dolgokat is szeretne a gépébe, egy füst alatt megoldhatja nála.