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Author Topic: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface) (Read 79299 times)

Offline Bagpuss22

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #150 on: 2015.August.12. 10:23:42 »
That was quick!  Looking good.

Offline pear

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #151 on: 2015.August.19. 20:26:17 »
PCBs arrived.
The first real device - the beginning of assembly.
Tight, but everything fits.

Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #152 on: 2015.August.19. 21:35:35 »
Hmmm ... it seems quite complex thingy ...

How will we know the exact use cases ? What are those sockets, what are those switches, how can we reprogram the functions in the sockets, or such things ...
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Offline gflorez

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #153 on: 2015.August.20. 00:16:27 »
Now he is working on these little details...

Looks to me like a treasure.

Offline pear

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #154 on: 2015.August.20. 06:32:34 »
Hmmm ... it seems quite complex thingy ...

How will we know the exact use cases ? What are those sockets, what are those switches, how can we reprogram the functions in the sockets, or such things ...
It is complex you say ?
The requirements of future users are complex :)

JTAG connector, dip-switches and LEDs are currently not used.
This is all for future options.
One known me right now option is a "joystick mode" for the mouse.
Not yet implemented in firmware, but it will take one (or two) section of dip-switch.

Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #155 on: 2015.August.20. 14:21:28 »
Quote
The requirements of future users are complex :)

Yes, those are. Always ... :)

Quote
JTAG connector, dip-switches and LEDs are currently not used.
This is all for future options.

It's very strange ... for me (I have no strong experiences in hw development or design) ...

How can it be possible to "think forward" in HW design ?

Aren't those currently not used parts of the circuit wired to the other parts ? Will we wire those later, by hand ?
Or are those wired into the "system", just those are not currently handled by some (probably programmable) central parts ?

So, what would be interesting to me (and maybe others, too),

"what will be the possibilities of the card", "how this will work", "what parts it has and how those work together",
"what are those extending possibilities of the card, with what someones can operate to implement future options you mentioned"

Or such things ...

(If these are too complex things, or you have no time to write as many things, or such, it is no problem, I just ask these because I'm curious ...)

I would like to imagine what I can do with this card when I will have one, and how I can use it, customize it or play with it ...
So, I understand, I can use mouses with this, and joysticks, but now you mention "future options" and currently not used parts of the circuit ... maybe it will be more expandable or complex than I think of it formerly ...

Quote
One known me right now option is a "joystick mode" for the mouse.
Not yet implemented in firmware, but it will take one (or two) section of dip-switch.

Yes, joystick mode could be a straightforward thing (thinking in EP), some EP users tested it, and found that usable ... And EP has a very few softwares using a mouse directly ...
I never tried that, so I do not know how many software can be usable with a mouse through joy emulation.
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Offline gflorez

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #156 on: 2015.August.20. 17:08:18 »
The adapter will not be expandable to infinity. Please read this thread from he beginning and then you will know how the adapter has been conceived and its future uses.

Offline pear

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #157 on: 2015.August.20. 17:57:59 »
It's very strange ... for me (I have no strong experiences in hw development or design) ...
How can it be possible to "think forward" in HW design ?
Aren't those currently not used parts of the circuit wired to the other parts ? Will we wire those later, by hand ?
Or are those wired into the "system", just those are not currently handled by some (probably programmable) central parts ?
An awful lot of questions, but one after the other :)

With a programmable circuits, and microcontrollers it is now much easier to design hardware than a dozen years ago.
In turn, these ICs are not "made to measure".
In most applications always remain unused resources.
If not used, then at least it should be provided that can come in handy.
The hardware project is usually established as the first and the first is usually completed.
Firmware arises during or after the hardware.
There is always a possibility to come up with a new idea in the firmware, to which will require some additional inputs (dip-switches) or outputs (eg. LED).
In the case of PLD it may be completely changed its operation by one signal.
You have to just predictable. A little experience it helps.
It is easier not to mount an element, than appends a spider in the air :)

This is just the first, prototype version of the interface.
The project is still ongoing, so maybe some of these unnecessary functions come in handy.

What other additional functions arise, it depends on You and remaining free resources.
« Last Edit: 2015.August.20. 18:02:25 by pear »

Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #158 on: 2015.August.20. 18:54:51 »
Quote
An awful lot of questions, but one after the other :)

Okay, and gflorez had right, as well,
I could read the informations more deeply and I could try to put the informations together for myself, but these things are not too easy ... :)
But (sooner or later) I will do that, of course.

But now I try to ask more specifically, maybe the answer is shorter for this:

Using (for example) a sega controller through this adapter with the EP ... will it be "under the scope" of this hardware interface, or such a "change" is out of the scope ?
(Maybe with some custom programming of the chips on it, or such ...)

Sega controllers have the same physical connector like C64/Atari/Amiga/CPC/ETC joysticks, but of course probably a different pinout and/or a different protocol.
But these devices have real 3 or more additional buttons to the directions ...
(What buttons will be barely used by EP softwares, but I hope that some EP software is configurable on the full range of inputs of the EP ...)

But (of course) there are many joysticks/controllers,
(using the same physical connector, or only more easy to replace the connector on the wire of the controller than fully recable the device to the EP inputs, not mentioned how problemmatic to get edge connectors with the appropriate size to the EP side),
so there are many controllers, for nintendo, sega, and other computers/consoles what have less than 9 wires, and physically could connect to this interface easilly through the joystick connectors.

The question is the above one: handling different pinouts and/or protocols than the C64's one, is under or above the scope of this device ? (Of course with customization, not "from stock")



Some explanation to the question:

Formerly I hacked together (with the help of the people of this forum, not myself) a PS/2 keyboard interface, what can work along with the EP's internal keyboard.
(I used an arduino micro "board" alone, the wires connect to this board directly, everything is in software, and (of course) the answer times to the EP side are on the edge, using even assembly handled interrupts.)
I very like the different game controllers/joysticks especially those are with many buttons.
Along the keyboard interface, I planned to implement mouse and joystick support as well,
but (thanks to god) the mouse will be handled by your interface, so that problem will be solved by you,
and I would be happy if your hardware would be capable to handle such different type of controllers, too.

In this case, I have not to do anything more, but customize the hardware of you ...
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Offline pear

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #159 on: 2015.August.20. 19:11:12 »
Theoretically, I see the possibility of connecting the Sega controller to the EnterMice.
In the current version of the PCB, however, would require a pretty serious modifications due to a difference in pinout Atari type joysticks and Sega controller.
In Atari type joysticks the power supply is on pin No. 7, while Sega has on this pin signal Select, therefore, currently, could act only half of controller functions.
But nothing prevents to include this issue in the next version of the interface.

Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #160 on: 2015.August.20. 19:21:16 »
Quote
But nothing prevents to include this issue in the next version of the interface.

Some little more explanation I forgot before:

I chosed arduino micro for the keyboard project against (for example) an other AVR thing,
beacause I do not like to hack hardwares together, I rather like hacking softwares.
It is easier to me programming something than soldering, and with this arduino micro I could do that.

It would be a very similar thing to the previous, if your hardware would be "programmable" or such ...

Of course if your hardware's next version could be handle these different kind of pinouts/protocols,
then I do not want to hack it's software, either.

But there is always an additional pinout/protocol version ... so extensibility with fw change ... would be a good thing ...
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Offline pear

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #161 on: 2015.August.20. 19:31:54 »
Not everything can be solved in software, but a hardware can be designed in a way, you do not have to "a hack hardware" in the future :)
The current version of the interface, even though I tried, it is not so flexible to solve the problem solely in software.

Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #162 on: 2015.August.20. 19:40:53 »
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you do not have to "a hack hardware" in the future :)

It sounds cool ! :)
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Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #163 on: 2015.August.20. 19:45:24 »
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The current version of the interface, even though I tried, it is not so flexible to solve the problem solely in software.

Okay, I got it.

Thanks, and waiting for the current and the next version(s), too ... :)
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Offline Z80System

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Re: EnterMice (Joy & PS/2 mouse interface)
« Reply #164 on: 2015.August.20. 21:07:14 »
Quote
In the current version of the PCB, however, would require a pretty serious modifications due to a difference in pinout Atari type joysticks and Sega controller.
In Atari type joysticks the power supply is on pin No. 7, while Sega has on this pin signal Select, therefore, currently, could act only half of controller functions.

Otherwise,

Is this problem about especially the POWER pin collision, or is this problem about the different pinout overall ?

So, could be the hardware programmable/customizable for different layouts AND protocols/behaviours,
except of the power pin,
or it is not about the power pin, but it is about the pinout AND protocols/behaviours ?

Because if it is about the power pin only, or even about the whole pinout,
and otherwise the device is configurable enough for (example) a 6 button sega genesis controller protocol,
then connecting that previously mentioned controller is only a connector pinout converter cable thing.

I would get a 9 pin d-sub male and female, and a short cable, and I would solder an appropriate pinout converter cable to the given controller.
So the pinout problem would be solved easilly, without the hurting/disassembling the given controller/joystick or the EnterMice.

The protocoll differences (between a 6 button sega megadrive controller and the atari/c64 joy) would remain ...

Could the device handle the protocol differencies, or that would be a problem, too ?
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