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Author Topic: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice? (Read 479 times)

Offline John Fante

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Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« on: 2021.June.14. 20:19:29 »
I have recently gotten hold of an original NEOS mouse :-)

Can I use that with the EnterMice interface to get the real old school PaintBox feeling?

I have not so far tested. The reason why I ask is that it is the C64 version of the mouse and I just want to be sure that I do not fry anything trying. If you use the MSX version of the NEOS mouse on a C64 it will/can destroy the SID-chip that controls the ports.

Thank you in advance!

Online geco

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #1 on: 2021.June.14. 22:41:54 »
as i saw, yes, but please check it also:
https://wiki.enterpriseforever.com/index.php?title=EnterMice

Online gflorez

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #2 on: 2021.June.15. 08:57:35 »
Yes, is it possible to connect a Neos mouse to the EnterMice adapter, but NOT directly, because:

-The 2 joystick ports have been re-arranged to the Atari norm, the +5v, GND and fire signals are on different pins.

-The Select signal is not present on the 2 joystick ports.


So, any intent of connecting a Neos Mouse to an EnterMice needs first to build an adapter to match their pin signal layouts.

Then, you must add the Select signal from the Enterprise Serial Port.

The good point is that, being the EnterMice a two stage adapter(Atari normalisation  ------> PS/2 interface), the Joystick ports are on the middle of the two stages, and are compatible with the Neos Mouse.

Full explanations later....
« Last Edit: 2021.June.15. 10:36:15 by gflorez »

Online gflorez

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #3 on: 2021.June.15. 11:52:59 »
This is the problem when I want to give a fast answer.... I make mistakes...

Neos is already Atari norm, so it can be directly connected to the joystick ports of the EnterMice... but it will not work as a mouse, only as a Joystick(if you press the left mouse button while switching-On the computer).

Observe the pin-outs:



So you only have to add the Select(/Strobe) signal to pin 6 on the Neos to make it work on a program that supports it.



Pear added the connector on some of his EnterMices, when the owner asked it. But it is easy to make.

The main difference with the Atari norm is that the Neos use the main button lead to transport the select signal so, when you have it on mouse mode, any press on the left button will stop the mouse movement, because the signal is shorted to GND....

I don't know why they designed so badly the Neos mouse, probably due to the characteristics of the C64 joysticks ports, but it forced the use of the right mouse button as the click button.

----

Ok, once clarified this, I must say that the Boxsoft interface was declared obsolete long time ago, in favour of the EnterMice interface by genius Pear. Why?

-You canĀ“t have at the same time a Neos mouse and a Joystick on port 1, their signals clash.

-EnterMice works on the undocumented K line, not used by any classic device or program. Joysticks ports 1 and 2 usually use the widely used J line.

-The EnterMice Joystick ports add two extra buttons, from lines K and L, and some actual games(mainly converted by great Geco) benefit from it.

-And last but main reason: Actually there are only a few known working Boxsoft interfaces, two original ones owned from users of this Web page(Zozo is one of them) and an ugly clone made by me from Zozo's schematics...

Ok, but this doesn't mean that you can't use the Neos mouse, at least you can on these programs that use the unified mouse driver: EXOS(Basic and any other language), EGI and PaintBox.

Obviously.... a ball mouse will not give you the best feel, nor the best movement resolution, but it is up to you.

First you must install the mouse driver, downloading the latest version from here.

The best information about the driver is on the EnterMice Wiki, the link Geco has already given to you, and I will not repeat it here.

But is important to point the list of devices that actually work with the Mouse Driver:

Code: [Select]
 0 - Internal Joystick     2 buttons, Space and Enter
  1 - Control 1             3 buttons
  2 - Control 2             3 buttons
  3 - Boxsoft               2 to 5 buttons
  4 - EnterMice (default)   2 to 5 buttons
  5 - Serial Mouse Systems  3 buttons
  6 - Serial Microsoft      2 buttons
  7 - SF3 USB Mouse         2 to 5 buttons
 >7 - Not implemented
« Last Edit: 2021.June.15. 15:51:04 by gflorez »

Offline John Fante

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #4 on: 2021.June.15. 20:05:44 »
Thank you very, very much for the detailed answer :ds_icon_cheesygrin:

I will give it a try this weekend!

Online gflorez

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #5 on: 2021.June.16. 10:17:11 »
Great.

Ask me any doubt.

Offline John Fante

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #6 on: 2021.June.17. 10:27:30 »
Quick question:

My EnterMice looks a bit different than yours :)

It looks like A3 and B3 are connected here.

Is it ready to go?

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Re: Can I use NEOS mouse with EnterMice?
« Reply #7 on: 2021.June.17. 16:46:56 »
Yes, yours is the latest EnterMice version. But you still need to to add the B3 signal to the Neos Mouse.

I already have not said it: the driver only reads the joystick port 1, right hand from the user point of view(the nearest to the PS2 connector).