Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.


Author Topic: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet (Read 3751 times)

Offline BruceTanner

  • EP user
  • *
  • Posts: 487
  • Country: gb
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 6.3 Windows NT 6.3
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 36.0.1985.143 Chrome 36.0.1985.143
    • View Profile
Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« on: 2014.September.03. 01:21:53 »
Here is a tiny new module that can connect a device to WiFi over serial :shock: : (it does SPI too)

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/WiFi-Serial-Transceiver-Module-w-ESP8266-p-1994.html

It is aimed at the "internet of things" but I don't see why the Enterprise could not be a "thing" :) It has a nice soldering iron friendly 0.1" connector!

It would be slow of course - the max baud rate of the Enterprise is 9600 :oops:. But it would be easy to connect up without interfering with disk drives/SD card readers etc on the main expansion bus or cartridge slot. It contains the TCP/IP stack so would just need the SMB or FTP protocol to run on the Z80. (Q: is it possible for a 4Mhz Z80 to go faster than 9600 without extra h/w assist? [without disabling interrupts for ages])

Offline Kapitany

  • EP fan
  • *
  • Posts: 229
  • Country: hu
  • OS:
  • Linux Linux
  • Browser:
  • Safari 4.0 Safari 4.0
    • View Profile
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #1 on: 2014.September.06. 14:35:46 »
Mr. Tanner, have you ever seen connected more that two Enterprises via the NET interface?

I'm writing a turn based spaghetti western card game for the EP, based on the famous game BANG. My initial plan was to make a single player game with 4 CPU opponents, but after reading the broadcast and unicast message capabilities of the NET: channel, I thought why should not be the game played with up to 5 players and cpu players together?

What do you think would be the best method to connect more than 2 EPs in a LAN? Some kind of T-wires, or by creating an EP HUB?

Offline BruceTanner

  • EP user
  • *
  • Posts: 487
  • Country: gb
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 6.3 Windows NT 6.3
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 36.0.1985.143 Chrome 36.0.1985.143
    • View Profile
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #2 on: 2014.September.06. 15:31:34 »
Hi Kapitany,

That is an interesting idea and it it would be great to see this aspect of the Enterprises capabilities used! I suspect not many people have (zozo excepted of course :ds_icon_cheesygrin:). I must admit I do not remember the network code being developed - it wasn't me - but I'm sure it must have been done with more than two, but probably not many more! :oops:

Regarding T-wired or hub wired, I am reminded of the early days of Ethernet, which were T-wired. As I recall the main downside occurred when you had a break in a wire - the whole network broke and it was difficult to trace the fault. With a hub you can just unplug each computer in turn until the network starts working again. For a commercial setup this would definitely be better but for a home made setup it might be easier to go for T-wiring than to build a hub. (I don't know if it is possible to buy totally passive hubs these days. Maybe a one-into-many phone line splitter could be used?)

Offline lgb

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Country: hu
  • æðsta yfirmaður
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://lgb.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #3 on: 2014.November.11. 09:11:12 »
Since this was also a topic in the "SymbOS" thread, it's maybe interesting to note that according the data sheets of this stuff, this module supports SDIO. Which is basically an interface "looks like" an SD card, but using some kind of I/O functionality (network in our case) instead of controlling some flash storage. I don't know anything about SDIO in details but just wondering if there is a possibility to connect to the SD cartridge as SDIO to get wireless network for the EP, without building another hardware to have interface towards the Enterprise first ....... Of course software supports is still needed, but if SymbOS can (or will be able to, at least) support it, then it can be a good start.

Offline BruceTanner

  • EP user
  • *
  • Posts: 487
  • Country: gb
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 6.3 Windows NT 6.3
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 38.0.2125.111 Chrome 38.0.2125.111
    • View Profile
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #4 on: 2014.November.11. 10:08:23 »
I think there is some confusion over the interfaces supported by the module because the initial datasheet (in Chinese) was talking about what the on-board processor supports. So for example SPI was mentioned in the data sheet but I can find no evidence that you can communicate with the module over SPI instead of serial, just that the processor itself has SPI. :oops:

From what I have read the serial interface is a fixed baud rate which has been increased to 115200 in recent software releases, which might be pushing things a bit for the poor old Z80! But it is a quick-changing world for this module and some people have now written code to run on the processor, so lots of possibilities...

Also in relation to SymbOS we now need the serial interface for a mouse! :roll:

Offline lgb

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Country: hu
  • æðsta yfirmaður
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://lgb.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #5 on: 2014.November.11. 10:40:19 »
I think there is some confusion over the interfaces supported by the module because the initial datasheet (in Chinese) was talking about what the on-board processor supports. So for example SPI was mentioned in the data sheet but I can find no evidence that you can communicate with the module over SPI instead of serial, just that the processor itself has SPI. :oops:

Hmm, I don't know, it was just summary about the module stating it supports serial, SPI and SDIO. Surely, SPI/SDIO would provide higher data rates than "regular" serial even at baud rate of 115200.

Chinese stuffs are interesting, sometimes it's even hard to figure out what the stuff do, because of conflicting information, very bad English in documents (even more bad than my English hehe).

Quote
From what I have read the serial interface is a fixed baud rate which has been increased to 115200 in recent software releases, which might be pushing things a bit for the poor old Z80! But it is a quick-changing world for this module and some people have now written code to run on the processor, so lots of possibilities...

Also in relation to SymbOS we now need the serial interface for a mouse! :roll:

Maybe, but it seems now the "boxsoft mouse interface" is the common (at least it seems if browsing the topics/posts on this forum) what everybody wants to have soon. And it's kinda different animal :)

Online Zozosoft

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 13531
  • Country: hu
  • OS:
  • Windows XP Windows XP
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://enterprise.iko.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #6 on: 2014.November.11. 10:44:45 »
Bruce! If I remember right you suggested previously something which use a normal parallel data bus. Can you remember which module this?

Offline lgb

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Country: hu
  • æðsta yfirmaður
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://lgb.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #7 on: 2014.November.11. 10:54:04 »
Bruce! If I remember right you suggested previously something which use a normal parallel data bus. Can you remember which module this?

Though I am not Bruce :) but maybe something like this, if I remember correctly: http://www.wiznet.co.kr/sub_modules/en/product/Product_Detail.asp?cate1=5&cate2=42&cate3=0&pid=1030

Btw, I've found a Hungarian distributor who can ship it for something like 10000 HUF or such, I can't remember :( Ah, Ok found, it was (what I've asked): WIZ830MJ from "SOS electronic shop", the module + shipping is 7324HUF without taxes, so it's about 10000 then. It was in 2013, so the price could be changed since then, I guess.

But this is not wifi based, but wired ethernet. Not so a problem for me, even for PCs I prefer the "good old stable" cable, and I use wifi only for devices like smart phones ...

Here it is some table about the wiznet network modules: http://www.wiznet.co.kr/Sub_Modules/en/product/Product_Line.asp?cate1=5&cate2=42

But they seem to have wifi based stuffs as well: http://www.wiznet.co.kr/Sub_Modules/en/product/Product_Line.asp?cate1=5&cate2=43

About the "HW sockets" in the table: as far as I can remember, the important fact is the one that it supports TCP/IP connections "by hardware" (so by an embedded MCU, anyway, but who cares) and "4 sockets" mean that 4 parallel connections are handled. Not having "mac address" is not so much a problem, but you must set it from software then, I guess, not a big deal, but in theory every devices should use different addresses or some ugly thing can happen if it's not true within an ethernet segment.
« Last Edit: 2014.November.11. 11:10:41 by lgb »

Online Zozosoft

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 13531
  • Country: hu
  • OS:
  • Windows XP Windows XP
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://enterprise.iko.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #8 on: 2014.November.11. 11:22:10 »
Though I am not Bruce :) but maybe something like this, if I remember correctly: http://www.wiznet.co.kr/sub_modules/en/product/Product_Detail.asp?cate1=5&cate2=42&cate3=0&pid=1030
Thanks, I think this is.
And one level better.
No price difference :-) I found it for a 20 euros+VAT

The MCU interface looks great for a memory mapped I/O in the Enterprise.

Offline lgb

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Country: hu
  • æðsta yfirmaður
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://lgb.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #9 on: 2014.November.11. 11:34:31 »
Thanks, I think this is.
And one level better.
No price difference :-) I found it for a 20 euros+VAT

The MCU interface looks great for a memory mapped I/O in the Enterprise.

Yes, exactly, that was I told in my previous post after I found the mail :) Yes, I wrote a bad link at the beginning of my post, that's true. I've also attached a PDF to this post, it was the offer I got about the module.

Online Zozosoft

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 13531
  • Country: hu
  • OS:
  • Windows XP Windows XP
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://enterprise.iko.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #10 on: 2014.November.11. 11:45:31 »
WIZ830 at mouser.com

With this company you can order anything from Mouser, without minimum limit, or additional costs (direct order from the Mouser are 40 euros shipping cost). But the Hungarian VAT added. No shipping cost if you pick up personaly, or only the Hungarian shipping cost.

I ordered the Dual Port SRAM and etc at this way :-)

Offline lgb

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Country: hu
  • æðsta yfirmaður
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://lgb.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #11 on: 2014.November.11. 11:50:42 »
WIZ830 at mouser.com

With this company you can order anything from Mouser, without minimum limit, or additional costs (direct order from the Mouser are 40 euros shipping cost). But the Hungarian VAT added. No shipping cost if you pick up personaly, or only the Hungarian shipping cost.

I ordered the Dual Port SRAM and etc at this way :-)

Wow! Maybe I will order then a 65816 CPU (not so much a Z80/EP topic) my problem was that the 40EU shipping cost is much more than the item itself, which forced me not to do anyway :(

I'm wondering though if I should learn Polish now, or google translator is good enough :)
« Last Edit: 2014.November.11. 13:06:00 by lgb »

Offline BruceTanner

  • EP user
  • *
  • Posts: 487
  • Country: gb
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 6.3 Windows NT 6.3
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 38.0.2125.111 Chrome 38.0.2125.111
    • View Profile
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #12 on: 2014.November.11. 13:51:21 »
The wiznet interface is much closer to the ideal than the serial module but the problem is the same as with SD cards: how do you get access to the z80 bus and signals while still being able to use disk drives etc?

I have an idea for doing this based on a PCB that has an edge connector on one side and fingers on the other so that fits between the Enterprise and disk unit, with the actual circuitry either further "back" or on a vertical sub-board, but my workshop is packed away in boxes at the moment. I'm working on converting a garage into a workshop and hope to work on a network interface when that's done if nobody else has done it by then!!

Online Zozosoft

  • EP addict
  • *
  • Posts: 13531
  • Country: hu
  • OS:
  • Windows XP Windows XP
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 33.0 Firefox 33.0
    • View Profile
    • http://enterprise.iko.hu/
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #13 on: 2014.November.11. 14:21:37 »
I have an idea for doing this based on a PCB that has an edge connector on one side and fingers on the other so that fits between the Enterprise and disk unit
See the Bus expander card from Gyula Mészáros.
Unfortunately hard to find todays, but develop something similar will be possible.
Schematic.

Offline BruceTanner

  • EP user
  • *
  • Posts: 487
  • Country: gb
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 6.3 Windows NT 6.3
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 38.0.2125.111 Chrome 38.0.2125.111
    • View Profile
Re: Another possibility for Enterprise on Ethernet
« Reply #14 on: 2014.November.11. 14:55:25 »
See the Bus expander card from Gyula Mészáros.
Unfortunately hard to find todays, but develop something similar will be possible.
Schematic.

Thanks zozo; yes making more of those is definitely a possibility. But I was thinking of maybe a sort of single slot version of that (so you could chain more than one together if you needed to. Might need a switch/link block).