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Author Topic: Questions about SymbiFace3 (Read 2106 times)

Offline tofro

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #15 on: 2020.July.10. 15:25:21 »
I have a much more basic question:

Where can I get a SF3 and what exactly do I need?

Thanks,
Tobias

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #16 on: 2020.July.10. 15:58:36 »
Tofro, I have put you a PM.

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #17 on: 2020.July.10. 18:18:12 »
The INI file is a batch file, just like the ones we use on EXDOS and ISDOS.

On the list, "*" is like a "!" or "REM" on Basic, so these lines are comments or de-activated commands.

The configuration stored on the INI is saved on ARM memory, so the file is no more accessed when boot finish.
------------------------

First we have to define our wifi point or points of access. Up to 5 could be defined.

For example, I use three of them, my work, my house and my phone. A wifi zone on the phone is very useful for tests, or when you are on an Enterprise Club meeting....

Code: [Select]
WIFI_PASS   =wwwww
WIFI_SSID   =xxxxxxx

This is easy, WIFI_SSID is the name of the access point, and WIFI_PASS is... the password.

Don't leave connection commands without content, if you use only one point of access, erase the other lines or put an "*" as the first character.

Code: [Select]
*WIFI_CONNECT
Remove the * on this command, the first wifi connection tries. It will force the wifi connection on SF3 boot. If not active, the connection will be made only on demand, when a function needs wifi access. After the first connection, the SF3 will remain connected, but there are available functions to force disconnection, and even re-connection.

When connecting, SF3 will try first the more powerful station on the adjacent zone that is also available on the list, so the order is not important.

EDIT: Hans points that some routers use estrange characters on the password. SF3 removes by default all TABS and Spaces from the INI file before executing it, but this can be avoided if the line starts by @. Example:

Code: [Select]
@WIFI_PASS=HELLO  SPACE
In this case, the spaces will also be used on the password.
« Last Edit: 2020.July.10. 21:33:57 by gflorez »

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #18 on: 2020.July.10. 18:35:27 »
The next section is TMTnet settings.

Code: [Select]
TMTNET_USERID=30XX
TMTNET_PASS=XXXX

These commands are optional, because if the data is not found on the ARM memory, the chat program will ask you them once. The two data will be stored until a switch-off happens. Some programs could also store the two access data, and would restore them on other sessions.

The TMTnet user and password are provided by Hans, and are not fixed to the SF3 in any form.

Later we will see how TMTnet works and what amazing options are planned for it.

Online gflorez

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #19 on: 2020.July.10. 20:56:54 »
And now I will present you one of the most exciting(for me) functions of  the SymbiFace3: Total RAM/ROM control on the 4MB addressable space....

Thanks to Zozo's advice, Hans has been able to address all the Enterprise memory range. For the very first time on the Enterprise history, all the 256x16KB segments can be used. I know, there are very few programs that can use all that memory, but it is cool to be able to do it after all those years... and it works as planned, EXOS(with Dave aid)is able to work with few memory, exactly  the same as with a lot of it. Rock solid operative system.

EPRAM[] is the command used to "inject" Ram on the segments between brackets. They can be named decimal, or hexadecimal if started with a "#". They can be listed with commas, but the most useful way to inject big zones of memory is as a range, first segment, hyphen(-), last segment.

ROM[] is similar, but injects only one Rom every time. The Rom can be 16KB, 32KB, 48KB or 64KB wide, SF3 will allocate the following segments, but we have to count them to not overwrite a segment. For example:

Code: [Select]
ROM[#60]  =SD:SF3BOOT.ROM
ROM[#61]  =SD:SPEMU128.ROM
ROM[#64]  =SD:epd19uk.rom

SPEMU128 is a 48KB Rom, so in this case SF3 will use segments, 61h, 62h and 63h, so the user has to know that the next free segment is 64h.

As a convention, optionally, the 60h-6Fh zone has been designed for user Roms. On EXOS 2.0 and 2.1, only 60h, SF3.ROM will be visible, so other X0h segments should be used, as explained before.

But before starting to tweak on the Enterprise memory you should know more about your actual memory configuration.

The best way to know about it is to load EPDOS as extension. I provide the EPD17Z link on the museum here. It doesn't work with the SD reader, but we only need its EXOS commands, not the program itself. Once loaded it will restart and load the EPDOS program, press A to abort and search Basic with the cursor and press Enter.

Once again in Basic execute :LRAM. and then :HROM. Some text like this will appear:

25050-0

On the Ram segments list usually you will not see the lowest segment, that has been allocated for the Z80 page 00. In this case it is F8h. Then you can count 8 Ram segments from F8h to FFh. This is a 128K UK model.

On the Rom segments list, EXOS is never shown only WP on segment 01h. You can see how EPDOS has been allocated on Ram zone FA-FBh, and also you can see that these segments are not on the free segments list.

The only Rom that is "out of place" is the EXDOS+ISDOS Rom, on 20-21h. But EXDOS takes for it all the 20-2Fh zone, so we can't add Ram or Rom there.

Now we are going to list the Ram/ROM segments that the SF3 could inject on a stock EP128:

05h-07h on the cartridge area(on a cartridge with language Rom also segment 05h is used, on the SD adapter all 04h-07h segments are used), 08h-1Fh and 30h-F7h. A total of 224 segments can be injected on a stock EP128 with EXDOS controller... 3584KB...

Just add these commands to the Ram setting section on the INI file:

Code: [Select]
EPRAM[#08-#1F]
EPRAM[#30-#F7]

But as I have said, a stock EP128 has EXOS 2.1, so it will only search Roms on X0h boundaries. You will need to slice these big ranges to put some Roms on your EP.

I highly recommend you to upgrade your EP to the latest EXDOS from Zozo, because a lot of fixings and "modernizations" have been made on it, like the fast Ram check, very necessary if you don't want to sleep while all that "huge" amount of Ram is tested on the stock EXOS.... There is a turnaround for EXOS 2.0 and 2.1 users: to use the stand alone Zozo's memory fast check on a modified cartridge or on the SD-reader.
« Last Edit: 2020.July.14. 21:23:25 by gflorez »

Offline Tutus

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #20 on: 2020.July.12. 21:00:39 »
ROM[#60]  =SD:SF3BOOT.ROM

How will this get on the SD card?
Need to download somewhere?
You didn't mention that in the description.

Offline John Fante

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #21 on: 2020.July.13. 07:22:49 »
You can find all the relevant sf3 info and files here.

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #22 on: 2020.July.13. 10:41:50 »
Sorry, I was very lazy with files... Soon I will share others that only I have.

SF3Boot.Rom can be on any segment, but for standardisation, and because one of the Basic programs manages Roms there, better put it on the 60h segment, and additional user Roms on 61-6Fh. If you still need more Rom space, use the 70-7Fh zone also. Check that the zone don't clash with your memory expansions.

Don't worry if, accidentally, some SF3 Rams/Roms clash with other internal or external memory(Ram/Rom) expansions, they will be mixed , it is not harmful, only will produce malfunction. Is the user who has to be careful with memory definitions.

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #23 on: 2020.July.14. 11:39:11 »
I'll ask you a few questions :)

- Will the SF3 mouse be able to handle the programs that EnterMice has handled so far?
- Will the date and time be displayed on the screen in the top status bar?
- Will it be possible to use SymbOS net programs with TMTNet?
- Will it be possible to run EP programs on the SF3 USB Pen Drive or SD card?
- Will SymbOS see the SF3 USB drive?
- Will SymAmp play music on the SF3 USB Pen Drive?

If anyone is already working on this, when are these developments expected?

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #24 on: 2020.July.14. 15:04:22 »
A lot of juicy questions...

First, the SF3 mouse implementation  is not compatible with all USB mice, but this is because there are thousands of mice implementations on PC. When you find a compatible mouse it works perfect.

You can use the SF3 mouse with programs that use the Mouse Driver, I added SF3 mode long ago. These are Paintbox, EGI and Basic. Still not on SymbOS, sorry. Prodatron has to add compatibility, like he has done on the CPC SymbOS port.

The games or apps that use directly the EnterMice hardware will not work, sorry, they must be adapted. I will try them on time.

The RTC inside the SF3 will be included by Zozo on a future on his Zozotools, so it will happen, and I hope the same with the SF3 USB and SD.

About TMTNet, I can say just now that TMTnet is incompatible with SymbOS-net, but I am sure that the SF3 will work with SymbOS-net when Prodatron make a driver for the wifi module on it. On the other side, TMTnet is totally possible as an app on SymbOS.

SymAmp is oriented to files, mode MP3A on SF3, while the Basic program SEPLAY2 is remote playing oriented, mode MP3B on SF3. The second one is better, because it doesn't stress the Z80 sending the song data to the Mp3 chip, it is the SF3 itself who manages the file and the data.

But we still don't have an EXDOS driver for the USB and SD on the SF3, so we only can use SymAmp playing MP3A from the SD-cartridge. And about SymAmp playing remotely the Mp3 files on SF3(MP3B), it would need very deep rewriting, surely.

I see easier to write a new SEPLAY app on QUIGS or machine code on EXOS. But all can be because we have the SymAmp assembly source.

I am almost sure that once having an EXDOS driver for the USB+SD we will have it also on SymbOS, because it takes its drive list from EXDOS. And SymbOS is already FAT16/32 compatible, so it will read partitions formatted FAT16 with EXDOS 3.0(Bruce).
« Last Edit: 2020.July.14. 15:10:33 by gflorez »

Offline John Fante

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #25 on: 2020.July.14. 16:59:01 »
@gflorez: Once again thank you for all your hard work for the platform :)

I had to remove my faulty RAM expansion and now everything seems to run stable again. But that means that I am down to 64KB without the Sf3 .... :smt073

I have therefore inserted these RAM-settings in the ini file

Code: [Select]
EPRAM[#08-#1F]
EPRAM[#30-#F7]

I have a SD card reader so I am not injecting

Code: [Select]
EPRAM[#05-#07]

Is that the optimal setting for my special system?

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #26 on: 2020.July.14. 17:20:45 »
I would leave EPRAM[#05-#07] , ROM of SD Card reader uses 06 07 if i remember well,  and EPDOS17 did not show suage for 05, but when i inserted a rom there, SD ROM was not visible.

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #27 on: 2020.July.14. 19:31:43 »
I tried with EPRAM[#05-#07]  but then I got an 64K ram error and no SD card reader working/showing up.

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #28 on: 2020.July.14. 20:04:28 »
- Will the date and time be displayed on the screen in the top status bar?
- Will it be possible to run EP programs on the SF3 USB Pen Drive or SD card?
These are waiting for me :oops:

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Re: Questions about SymbiFace3
« Reply #29 on: 2020.July.14. 21:14:04 »
I enjoy doing this, it is not an effort.

But not all is enjoyment... for example, I have introduced a very BIG ERROR when I put the range 05-07h as an example to use the max. memory possible on a stock UK EP128.

Due to the size of the CPLD used on the SF3, the memory addressing on the Enterprise approach has only one limitation: every 4 segments(64Kb) can only be Ram or Rom. There is a resolution of 64KB for selecting Ram or Rom.

This means that I can not take the spare 02, 03, 05, 06 and 07 segments to put Ram there, I only can put Rom on 02 and 03(the modified EXOS Roms from Zozo have 64KB), or I can select to put 64kB Ram on the cartridge(03-07), only if I don't put any Rom there.

Then, on a 16 segments row, for example 20-2F, I have freedom to put all Ram or Rom on chunks 20-23, 24-27, 28-2B, 2C-2F.

Is it enough freedom? I think yes.

But, just because SF3 is eminently software, I am going to ask Hans if the cartridge zone can be defined differently, a special zone, to be able to emulate the hybrid classic cartridges that had Ram and Rom on them.


I apologise for the confusion I have introduced...

I will fix the past explanations.
« Last Edit: 2020.July.14. 21:18:46 by gflorez »