Enterprise Forever
:UK => Hardware => Topic started by: TomPhobos on 2013.March.03. 00:34:49
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Hi,
last week i tried to connect my Enterprise to a HxC Floppy Emulator (SD card version). And it works perfect :)
Today i checked it out the whole day at a retro computer where i also took some photos.
The images must be created as 3,5" IBM 720kb-disks (ok, that's no surprise ;) ), then they must be converted to the HFE-format.
It's a great way to work with disk images on the Enterprise :)
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That looks like a nice easy way to use SD cards!
Did you buy the HxC emulator new? Are they still available, or is it an eBay item? There is one on eBay UK at the moment but it does not have a display on top like yours.
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I got mine from here:
http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=48 (http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=48)
You can also get this floppy emulators with case or other LED colors.
You also need a power supply for the HxC (it's a connection like on a real 3,5" floppy drive) and of course an EXDOS (or compatible) interface. So it's only an emulator for disk drives, not a replacement for the EXDOS-interface.
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OK, soon the Enterprise will be on the HxC-list of official supported computers :)
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Are extra sectors and tracks possible? (The most commonly used disk format in Hungary is 840K (84/10))
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Good question, do you have an example-image that i can check it out ? Actutally i tested it with the demos and the game images from the download section.
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Games 800K (http://ep128.hu/Emu/Disks_Games_800k.rar)
Music 800K (http://ep128.hu/Emu/Disks_Music_800k.rar)
(800K disks also can be used under Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista/7/8)
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Ah, ok, i downloaded the 720kb-images from the download-section. I didn't knew that it's more common to use 840kb-disks.
OK, i tried one of the 800kb-images. The standard-loader in windows gives me an error, "Load error! Image file not supported!". But i can also load a raw image. s you can see it has much settings. How many sectors and tracks are used by the 800kb-images ? So i can try to import them with this raw loader.
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How many sectors and tracks are used by the 800kb-images ?
10 sectors 80 tracks
The settings window looks very interesting! Probably also can use HD images just needed EXDOS ROM upgrade.
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HD-floppy images ? With the floppy emulator you can also read and write HD-PC-disks. If the format is the same that should also work.
Yes, the settings-menu is really interestings, with this you should be able to read almost every format. I can read the 800kb-image with it, also i can create an image for the emulator. I'll check if i can read this images with a real Enterprise tonight.
You can get the HxC-software here:
http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#download (http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#download)
So if you want to play around with this tool you can use it and create images, even if you don't own such a device. But it's great for checking out if images can be read. And if you have some images please send them to me so i can test them with the emulator.
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HD-floppy images ? With the floppy emulator you can also read and write HD-PC-disks. If the format is the same that should also work.
The problem with the bitrate, HD run on 500000 bits/sec instead the 250000.
On the real Enterprise the WD disk controller needed overclocking to double speed (8->16Mhz), and the machine also needed least 6Mhz. Then the EP will work with HD disk.
In this settings menu if you set the bitrate to the DD normal 250000 and the rpm to 150 (in the real world some tricky Amiga drives do this) then I think HD images will work with unmodified EP+EXDOS. Only the EXDOS EPROM needed to be replaced, because the original version only accepts 10 sectors/track disks.
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Ah, ok, so with an unmodified EXDOS it's only possible to use DD-disks/images.
OK, i tried to use the 800kb-images with the HxC. I used the RAW-loader with 80 sectors / 10 tracks, wrote the images to the SD card and successfully loaded them into the Enterprise. So it also works perfect :)
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90 tracks example. (NEC FD1035 drives can be used up to 90 tracks! :ds_icon_cheesygrin: )
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90 tracks example. (NEC FD1035 drives can be used up to 90 tracks! :ds_icon_cheesygrin: )
OK, here is the result :)
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OK, here is the result :)
Great!
Now I've looked at the HxC website, and found some interesting feature: possible write control sw for the host computer. And also possible use it as "hdd"!
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Yes, the HxC is a really good device with many features. Maybe it's possible to implement some special features (like the hdd feature) also for the Enterprise :)
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"Host control tool (Atari ST, Amstrad CPC, Amiga)"
Outrageous that is not yet Enterprise :)
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Arrived :-D
[attach=1]
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i want exdos an done of these!!!
let us know what you can do with it!
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Arrived :-D
(Attachment)
I hope, you'll bring it to the club to show us! :-)
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I hope, you'll bring it to the club to show us! :-)
Ok, I copied all disk images from ep128.hu to SDCard :-)
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Firstly I tested 9/10/11 sectors formats, all worked fine.
Currently one problem found: write track not working, then formating track not overwrite the sectors.
It is means EPDOS Format and FAFO with Verify can't format emulated disks, because verify error.
FAFO without Verify working, I created empty RAW 990K image with the HxC software, it is a "Not a DOS disk" at begin, because not have boot sector and etc, just pure empty sectors. Finally successfully formated with FAFO when Verify is off.
The EXDOS Format not check the contains of sectors while verify only the WD flags for data error then executed without error.
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The HxC sw can create a special disk image with 254 tracks, 10 sectors/track (2.5M), it is can be used with EXDOS also with the original unmodified versions.
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The HxC sw can create a special disk image with 254 tracks, 10 sectors/track (2.5M), it is can be used with EXDOS also with the original unmodified versions.
:smt041
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Ah, you also bought a HxC, great :)
OK, i haven't checked the write capabilities of the HxC together with the Enterprise. Maybe it's possible to create a workaround, either on the HxC-software-side or maybe directly on the Enterprise.
The possibility to create a 2,5MB-disk sounds great :) Is it possible to write directly into this image to use it as a "small" harddisk ?
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The possibility to create a 2,5MB-disk sounds great :) Is it possible to write directly into this image to use it as a "small" harddisk ?
Yes, in the HxC software select the "Create / Browse DOS disk". Then in the list select 3.5" 2.50MB DSDD FAT12 and press Create Disk. Now you can copy files to image by drag&drop. Finally save disk to .HFE file.
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OK, i haven't checked the write capabilities of the HxC together with the Enterprise.
Normal sector write working, problem only when full track writed (formating). Not only on Enterprise. In the HxC forum the developer answered to this problem: "I am actually working on a new write support."
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Played with disk images, found the largest possible "floppy disk": 254 tracks, 28 sectors, 2 sides: 7112K :-D
It is can be handled the today used modified EXDOS ROMs (the sector number check modified for also support ED disks under emulator), 28 sectors because the WD generate error after long wait for the sector.
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I have and hxc floppy emulator just need to find an exdos to plug it into!!! I need it bad
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I got new beta firmware from the developer.
Formating now working! Also possible reformat with different sector numbers for example format 720K disk to 800K, works as the real disks.
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Ah, sounds great :) So i'm looking forward to receive the final firmware with full Enterprise-support soon :)
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First direct communication with the HxC:
[attach=1]
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Wow, nice :)
Do you need a special EXDOS or can it also be used with a standard EXDOS ?
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Do you need a special EXDOS or can it also be used with a standard EXDOS ?
It will work with any EXDOS.
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It is will be work with any EXDOS.
Sounds great :)
Hmm, but i don't know why Jeff don't put the Enterprise on the list of supported computers. Actually the Enterprise is one of the systems with the most possibilities in combination with the HXC :)
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SDCARD Root directory listed :-)
[attach=1]
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Direct access, not only the images ? So you can use the SD-card as a HDD ? Coooooool :)
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Direct access, not only the images ?
Yes, it is in direct access mode.
The first target is disk image selection software for the Enterprise (currently only Amiga, Atari ST and Amstrad CPC have).
So you can use the SD-card as a HDD ? Coooooool :)
It is possible, but not so fast as real HDD, because the communication uses the floppy controller.
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now we can copy all EP programs to a single cheap sd card :)
including the specy conversions of course :)
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Actually it's also possible to copy the disk images to the SD-card, but you have to choose the disk images manually. With direct access you can copy all the programs to a SD without the necessary to change the disk image. Also with the image selection software you don't need an LCD anymore so i think it's also possible to build a HxC Slim directly into an EXDOS-interface and choose the needed image at booting time ... that's really great news :)
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Coming soon :-)
[attachimg=1]
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Wow, nice ! I'm really looking forward to it :)
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:smt041 :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
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Wow, nice ! I'm really looking forward to it :)
I hope the first public beta version can be released in the next few days :-)
This is the first loadable version ( .COM), loadable system extension and ROM version are planned.
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Ok, let's try it :-)
Current limitations:
- HxC need to be installed as drive A&B (this is the default HxC setting), autodetection and mixed HxC and real floppy drive mode will come later.
- only FAT32 formatted SDCard is supported (the latest HxC firmware added the FAT12/FAT16 support), others coming later.
- card can be formatted without MBR, or if MBR exists then first partition entry is used (as the HxC)
- EP64 is currently not supported because the video memory is too slow to run WD177x routines :-(
Keys:
Joy Up/Down: file cursor
Joy Left/Right: Prev/Next page
A/B: set the active drive
Enter: enter directory, or set the selected file to the current drive
F1: Start the disk in current drive: firstly try to execute EXDOS.INI then load START file. If these are not found then jump to ENTERPRISE logo screen.
STOP: exit program, jump to the ENTERPRISE logo screen.
In directory list the total meaningless . entry has been replaced with \ so now it's easy to go back to the root directory from any sub-sub.. directory.
The default drive is asked from EXDOS at the start.
The future ROM version will be the most comfortable version.
But now for the loadable version I suggest keeping the HxC manager disk in drive A: and replacing disk images in drive B:
The attached HFE disk image prepared with EXDOS.INI for this method.
Note: this is first public beta version, don't store any important data on the SDCard!
But I hope no any critical bug :oops:
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MBR exists then first partition entry is used
Now I tested with card formated with second entry used, the HxC say error massage. Then when my program also accept only first entry it is not a limitation, just same as the HxC.
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Hi, I'm a french start user (despite i have an entreprise since a few years).
I've an HxC for my Oric Atmos and i found your work.
What i've to find (and are the components available) to link my entreprise with an hxc like yours.
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You need an EXDOS (http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/ep128.htm) (disk controller card), unfortunatelly it is very rare :-(
But if you have experience in electronics then you can build one. There is the schematics. (http://enterprise.iko.hu/schematics/EXDOS~1.jpg)
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You need an EXDOS (http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/ep128.htm) (disk controller card), unfortunatelly it is very rare :-(
But if you have experience in electronics then you can build one. There is the schematics. (http://enterprise.iko.hu/schematics/EXDOS~1.jpg)
Does the WD1772 work as a direct replacement for the WD1770? The WD1770 is quite hard to find cheaply. I think the only difference between the WD1770 and WD1772 is the step rate -- the WD1772 being much faster for the same settings.
This could be another board worth making with a PAL or two to reduce the IC count right down. Plus my disk controller seems to have stopped working! I need to try and fix that... :roll:
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Yes WD1772 can be used, most of Hungarian third party EXDOS cards uses 1772. I made modified EXDOS ROM which sets the stepping rate to 3ms at default: faster access, and less noise on most of drives :-)
And 1772 can be overclocked to 16Mhz for reading HD disks :-)
(1770/72 can be overclocked to 10Mhz so 13 sectors formating with DD drives and disks is possible!)
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Yesterday at Speccyalist Day 2013 (Sinclair&Enterprise Club day) HxC used with Enterprise. On this occasion I made ROM version of the HxC Manager.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
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Yesterday at Speccyalist Day 2013 (Sinclair&Enterprise Club day) HxC used with Enterprise. On this occasion I made ROM version of the HxC Manager.
Fantastic! :shock:
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Effusive regards if you have not readed this thread: http://enterpriseforever.com/other-topics/hello-from-spain/
I've gotten a HxC Floppy Emulator and put it on top of the EXDOS controller you built me long ago(thanks!). Even I powered it from the expansion card, and it looks much better than with the necessary PSU.
I have tried all combinations, works perfect with simulation of a: and real floppy en b:(PC), but as I don't have nor need phisic disks I opted by simulate the two readers.
The only problem is with your HXC prog., that put the floppy emulator in direct access mode but fills the screen with zeros and hangs.
I've followed strictly your directions(or limitations) but don't know why it happens.
The firmware version is V1.8.2.40. I received the emulator in January 2014.
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For refreshing my memory :oops: can you make photo of your EXDOS card and the HELP list? (And I will try set up same configuration.)
If I remember right you got a 64K EPROM to the cartridge, and MICROTEAM type EXDOS card with 128K EPROM.
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Is faster to write it:
EXOS 2.31
LISP 0.6
FORTH1.0
ASMON 1.5
VAR 1.5
EPDOS 1.7
EXDOS1.3
ISDOS 1.0
CYRUS CHESS II
VDUMP
VSAVE
VLOAD
ESP
UK
BASIC 2.1
WP 2.6
WP 2.1
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You remember good, you made a 64K EPROM cartridge with Basic and your EXOS modified Rom, and MICROTEAM type EXDOS card with 128K EPROM(it has four more pins than the two 32k spare sockets). Also you populated all the RAM sockets and put a WD1772 controller in it.
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This is your card?
[attach=1]
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Exactly it.
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The picture. Observe the regulator replaced by a DE-SW050 ...
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The HxC now A: and B: drive? Under EXDOS both working?
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Yes, at first only one floppy working, or a: and b: the same image, but then I realised reading the HXC istructions that when using twisted cable from PC floppys a: and b: are selected in the two midle jumpers(J3)...
Now I have:
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And do you put the HXC.HFE disk image to drive A: ?
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Of course, you can see it on the screen in the fist picture i've send.
Here is what reads on both screens once the system hangs:
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The card is formated with Windows fat32. I don't know if it is important. The HXC emulator doesn't have that option, does it?
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OK OK.
I extracted all the information and formated again the SD card in Windows. Now your prog works....Sorry.
It's extrange it worked with images but not with your manager...
Pardon for bring you false troubles....
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Now your prog works....
Great news! :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
It's extrange it worked with images but not with your manager...
Probably some file system error on the card before reformating? (Don't ejected from PC after write?)
I will try to add more verifications.
Anyway what you think about the manager? Any suggestions?
It is will coming built in disk directory and program loading.
Thinking about search function for find specified game.
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It works great, but....... at exit, whether F1 or STOP pulsed, the floppy emulator "forget" the previous settings or the made with your manager, and I must reselect the images... Any clue?
I've been looking and can't find any more fault in my mounting.
On the other side it would be great if the manager could allow to launch programs directly from the SD card...
(Edit: I forgot to read the last sentence.)
Or if you do a resident handler for the Floppy simulator to function as a slow HD from a partition on the SD...32Gigas are so much free space...
you've achieved things more difficult
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Another bug, not very important and easy to implement: your manager lets the user to assign any file as an image, without even looking if it terminates in ".HFE". Search for a valid image could be very slow, I think. May be scanning the header.
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Checking header at selection is on my to-do list :oops:
You have a free ROM socket for the ROM version. It will be more comfortable :)
Do you have an EPROM or Flash ROM programmer?
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But something resets the floppy emulator when exiting from direct access(your manager). It`s only to me? The emulator config can be wrong? Tomorrow I will show you the actual settings, just only for reasuring.
Burning EPROMS is something always has intetested me, but seems complicate, doesn`t it?
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But something resets the floppy emulator when exiting from direct access(your manager). It`s only to me?
What you call as reset? "Reading FAT", etc? It is a normal.
Burning EPROMS is something always has intetested me, but seems complicate, doesn`t it?
No, it is a very simple, especially with the modern programmers (the sw know all parameters more than 1000 IC types).
Only complication the erase: need a UV lamp to do it. I have a germicidal tube which are looking a neon tube. I used a normal neon sockets and ignition switch for build EPROM eraser, putted all in a home made closed box (UV light dangerous for the eye!).
Todays FLASH ROM ICs (29xxx and 49xxx series) and a older EEPROMs (28xxx series) are electronically erasable, more comfortable than the old EPROMs (27xxx series)!
The FLASH ROMs use only single 5V supply for the erase/programming, then it is can be used in the Enterprise system!
I already do it :-) (http://gafz.enterpriseforever.com/Galery/Bovitmenyek/Picture/FLASH01.jpg)
For the MX/AMD 29F0xx series I wrote programming routine.
If soldering few wires not a problem for you then adding FLASH ROM chip to your card are the easy way to test ROM programs.
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Let's see if I can explain the problem:
At the exact moment I press F1 or STOP the HXC emits a long beep and its screen asks me again for a disk image "Choose a file". It is for that I call it a resetting.
Neither the image selection for a: nor b: are preserved, so at the moment your HXC Manager doesn't help me much...
Edit: your manager remembers every time it runs the last selection made inside it, not the previous made by me manually with the HXC Screen Buttons. I don't know if it is another bug or a consequence, but running your manager it should read first what the current images are and then present them in the bottom of the screen before let me do a selection.
"Reading FAT"? Where is it supposed to appear? I have not seen that...
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I like what you say about burn and erase ROMs directly from the EP. Also I have an unused connector on the expansion card(you planed it for IDE). Looks like those movies in which a robot repairs itself...
I'll be able so to upgrade any rom which becomes outdate. I understand replacing the actual chips 27X (ultraviolet erasing) with modern 28X, 29X or 49X. They are all pin compatible, really?
Can you send me the schematics?
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Can you save your SDCARD to .VHD file? For example with WinImage or other disk imaging software.
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Yes, all type of ROM chips have a very similar pinout, only few pins difference. I will start new topic with the details.
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Not necessary. I´ve found the error in the saved configs:
I checked the "Disable diskdrive selector" and all begun to work as desired. As a "side effect" HXC now loads the last installed image disk at power-on and your HXC Manager shows right the previous state of selection.
This HXC is a little but very complex thing...
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As a "side effect" HXC now loads the last installed image disk at power-on and your HXC Manager shows right the previous state of selection.
This is the normal operation, image selection stored in the HxC CFG file.
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Your Manager still doesn't change name images in config... I've tested wit a 2 Giga sd with the same results.
Is too large to send you a image, and I don't think formatting is the problem, rather the config.
Please compare my HXCSDFE.CFG with yours. What is the right configuration?
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Can be the twisted cable? Why in my hardware configuration I may select the active floppies in the middle pins of J3? is yours the same?
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I use a non twisted cable.
You can view my jumpers here. (http://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/exdos-with-hxc-floppy-emulator-works-perfect/msg36271/#msg36271)
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The twisted cable is only at the end of the second connector, if I put the fist connector it is not affected. The twist only changes a: to b: or b: to a:
If I set the jumpers like you, a: or b: on EP have the same image like the stored in the emulated a:
The only way they act as separate drives is with the jumpers at the middle. Strange as you work with the same exdos card.
Do you remember you modified the card to work with pc drives? How I revert the changes? Or, if this is at last the error, can you modify the Manager to deal with the trick? Mostly because if I fix it then I don't have physical units to attach..
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Do you remember you modified the card to work with pc drives?
Do you see any cuts and wires at the floppy connector?
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Do you think that little trick is causing the error? Just the only difference is that you changed where of the four cable selector of the drive is read.
You know I´m not a programmer but, does your Manager take into account what units are being used?
I´ve thinking in a woraround that can work in my case. When your HXC Manager returns the control to EXDOS, the Floppy emulator reads the two last images on its config archive and loads them automatically. Can you make a versión that overwrites that "last file used" record?
Clearly your HXC Manager also remembers the last selection, but in my case it does not communicate with the floppy emulator ...
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Yes, it is modified for twisted PC floppy cable. But I think not the cable the problem, if the Manager can display the directory of the SDCARD then the communication are good.
The HxC itself and the Manager also store the selected images in the HxC config file.
What happen when you press Enter on the selected image? It is do some access on the HxC?
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Yes, once selected I press ENTER and the HXC yellow ligth is "on" for abut 5 sec, and then "off". It makes something...
When in "direct mode" the green ligth is "on"(power on, evident) and red is "on and "off" with long cycles.
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I created .VHD from my SDCard. (http://enterprise.iko.hu/2GB_SDCARD.zip)
Can you write out and try it?
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Perfect!.
Although your image is not saved entirely on my 2GB card...?¿
I will send you a "not working" image to test.
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It is a 2GB image, but lot of empty sectors easy to compress :-) It is loaded with all of disk images from the ep128.hu plus some ZX Spectrum images.
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As I have a limit of 10M, how can I send you mi SD image? It weights only a little more than yours(170M).
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Dropbox free can be store up to 2GB, upload and share the link.
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Here you have it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/05znncb7qmoehvu/mi%20tarjeta.zip
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If it helps you, writing your image in my SD gives an error at the 97% written and then Winimage stops:
"Error writing disk Disk 3, error 27 : The unit can't find the required sector."
But the resulting image works perfect in the HXC...
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Some files missing, but I can extract them manually.
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If it helps you, writing your image in my SD gives an error at the 97% written and then Winimage stops:
my 2GB card looks bigger than yours:
My: 2 013 266 432 bytes
Your: 1 967 129 088 bytes
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No, sorry, no files missing, only that free space of your SD card cut.....
But the problem here with HXC seems to be the estrange formatting of my card, no?
Do you format with the tools of Windows?
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Probably the partition size not cutted and now wrong informations in the partition table and boot sector?
Yes, I formated with Windows 7, FAT32/4K cluster size. Then copied the CFG file then the disk images.
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No errors in my SD, I've repaired the errors with the Windows tools. Your image works good.
I usually format with WinXP, then copy the config and images. Can be XP? At home I'll do a test with a Win7.
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Do you see something wrong in my image? Have you tested it inside your SD?
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Do you see something wrong in my image? Have you tested it inside your SD?
I will test it when I'm at home.
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As I have a limit of 10M, how can I send you mi SD image? It weights only a little more than yours(170M).
Enterpriseforever has FTP access, too. I think all the members may feel free to use it.
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Ok, I write out your VHD, and see the problem! Start debugging... :oops:
My VHD is working for you?
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Your VHD image works perfect. I`ve formated another card with Win7. Tomorrow I will copy config and some images and test.
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Another bug: Sometimes your manager doesn`t lets select properly, you press Enter but the manager thinks the higlighted file is three or more lines displaced up in the list.
All the test I do to your HXC manager are made first turning off completely the EP.
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Another bug: Sometimes your manager doesn`t lets select properly, you press Enter but the manager thinks the higlighted file is three or more lines displaced up in the list.
Can you reproduce this? For example it happens when xy file is selected.
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Sd formatted with WIN7 working!. The offender is Winxp....
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About the bug in selection, here is a video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdq9ral9hshfs5l/video-2014-01-29-11-01-27.mp4
In the video, every time I move up or down I press Enter.
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About the bug in selection, here is a video:
Interesting :oops:
This is with my SDCARD image?
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Yes, your VHD image, with more files, but it fails the same with the image as you sent me.
This error only happens sometimes, then I do a reset and turns to work fine.
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The aspect I like most in your Manager is that the last selected floppy unit is from where the EP performs the reboot at pressing F1.
This saves having to go outside of the program to change the unit, and gives all possibilities.