Enterprise Forever
:UK => Hardware => Topic started by: BruceTanner on 2017.July.24. 21:35:58
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A few people have asked about EPNET progress recently so I thought I'd start a new topic for everything to do with EPNET.
Recent work
After the problems I had with glitches on the Enterprise's /RD and other z80 signals on the expansion bus (described in painful detail in other topics :cry:), and after discovering that a few original EXDOS cards include a fix :shock: , I have copied the fix and applied it to EPNET. This involved a new revision of the PCB which I am calling EPNET 1.2. (1.0 was my first version, and 1.1 was an intermediate version that never got made).
EPNET 1.2
EPNET 1.2 also includes: A compact FLASH card interface, nearly :oops: 512k expansion RAM, the ability to enable 64k FLASH ROM for any other ROM images, the ability to sit between the Enterprise and other expansion such as EXDOS, and the ability to live in a box.
[attach=1][attach=2]
Current state
I hope to be able to send out two "beta" prototype cards soon time for further testing in environments other than my little workshop. For example I have not tried it with 8 or 10MHz machines or with any Enterprises other than the 3 I own. I am particularly nervous about the last point given my /RD noise problems :(
If that goes ok I have enough parts and PCBs to build 7 more. While I am doing that I will need to order more parts and PCBs which will have a lead time of several weeks.
I hope to make it available as a vertical naked PCB as shown above (which can also be plugged into an expansion bus), a vertical box, or a horizontal box as shown above. (No photo yet of the vertical box as I am still working on it! :oops: ). The box versions sadly will have to be more expensive due mostly to the cost of the box itself.
Future
ESP8266 version: it should be possible to make a wireless version by just replacing the network module. But so far I only have a half-built prototype. :oops:
EXDOS integration: I would like to be able to map a drive letter to a network directory so that EPDOS etc works with a network directory. This requires a lot of work with EXDOS but that should also lay the ground work for FAT16 or possibly even FAT32. :shock:
This project is only a "hobby" in my spare time so no guarantees of timescales. I am going as quickly as I can but there are lots of other demands on my time particularly in the summer months! :roll:.
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Wow! Looks very promising!
:smt041
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Fantastic effort there!
I have several EPs near Cambridge if you need beta testers :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
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I have translated to Spanish your commentary on the Retrowiki (http://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=200033141&p=200084385#p200084385) web page.
Please keep on working on that amazing card.....
Thanks.
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Cool :)
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Very nice!!! :smt038
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Wow! After reading about the EPNET in the ENTERPRESS magazine, I got very excited, because I discovered a few weeks ago the world of Commodore BBSs with a C64 Modem, and I thought we should have at least something similar or even better, based on the potential and capabilities of the EP hardware and EXOS! I had only one wishes: to pleeease let it have a WiFi module! Be honest: who uses wired ethernet connection if it is not the only one main PC in the house for high speed tasks? And how fancy would it be to do some stuff in a netcafe with your Wifi capable EP! :D
And as I check the forum: my wish came true! Even more! It would be very nice to have a RAM upgrade in the card, and a writeable flash rom for further ROM images, for example ASMON!
I could not imagine that EPNET is in such a far gone stage! Can't wait to have one of the almost final, usable cards!
Keep up the good work and keep us informed about the development process!
Kapitány
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I'm now translating the provisional EPNET 1.2 manual to Spanish. I had already read the 1.0 version (https://github.com/BruceTanner/EPNET/raw/master/EPNET%20User%20Manual.pdf), freely available on the Bruce Tanner Github page (https://github.com/BruceTanner), but two years ago EPNET was "only" an Ethernet interface....
1.2 is not still the definitive guide version, because some details of the real hardware have been modified, have been added or will change soon, but it explains thoroughly all the juicy details of this superb One For All card.
Some of you could be thinking that it is only one more expansion for the Enterprise, a card accessible to only a few users, but that's not the intention of Bruce. He is offering the code and hardware freely to every one that wants to construct it.
Also, he is offering a finished product, i.e. this is not the typical unfinished project that you can find on Github, he has put a lot of years of work on it, and will continue supporting it in the future, adding features when, hopefully, EPNET will be on every Enterprise owner's desk.
To me, reading the manual, it gives me the same sensation like when you hear wonderful music performed by a good interpreter. It sounds sort of "easy", you can't feel the effort it has taken to reach that perfection.
For example, he has made a hard work on the card to obtain total compatibility with all the Enterprise configurations, implementing a way to "float"(move) the incorporated EPNET RAM and ROM to memory zones not used by ALL the previous card extensions made on the Enterprise history...
Another aspect is how well he has implemented the EPNET commands, totally compatible and transparent. Once connected to a net, you can DIR, COPY, SAVE, LOAD, etc. remotely from it, almost like you can do with a floppy disc or other logical units.
The average user never will notice the effort Bruce has put on implementing actual net technologies on a 32 years old(or more) machine...
Also he has added an 8-bit IDE port intended for Compact Flash adapters, and written a driver for it. What more could we want?. Ok, here I would want a Real Time Clock(RTC), but EPNET has commands to retrieve the exact net time from a NTP server...
Of course, I am only talking about what I read on the manual, I don't have the real hardware, but I KNOW that this device will change the way we enjoy this so loved computer.
Sorry, I can't say more, as I'm still not allowed to release this provisional manual. But soon Bruce himself will present the definitive one.
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Thank you for the kind comments :ds_icon_cheesygrin:. I only hope it can live up to expectations. :oops:
The files on my github page are very out of date now - here is the most recent User Manual I have as a .pdf file. (I can send the original in Libre Office format if that is useful to you.) I will update github when I am closer to release.
[attach=1]
Sadly it turned out that the "glitch" issues are not over, and I have had to go to v1.3. The new PCBs have this morning arrived from China. :)
In the User Manual some of the descriptions of links/jumpers used for configuration will now be out of date but all the commands etc. should still be valid.
Regarding the glitch issues, the latest news is: it seems the glitch problems mainly apply to EP64s with ISSUE 4 PCBs. I have one and zozo has several, and other hardware (eg Microteam cards) also usually do not work with them. zozo also has two ISSUE 6s with similar problems. Original EXDOS cards seem better at working with the "bad" EP64s that other add-on hardware, but even they do not always work. And some EXDOS cards have a factory-fitted modification to filter out glitches on the z80 /RD signal going to the EPROM (but not anything else, which is a bit of a mystery). It is still my hope that EPNET will work with all EPs. :)
B.
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Ok, Bruce. I am at the middle of the translation, working on the .odt file you send me in July, so better I will compare the two pdf files and add or fix what I found.
More ahead I will do an automatic Hungarian translation.
I have found that we have a way of checking if the Hungarian translation that is returned by Google or Chrome is more or less correct. It is, translating the text back into English. If the text returned is similar to the original, we are on the right track...
This will give us a translation more or less like those of the prospects of Chinese products....
Later it will be easier for a qualified human translator to make the final fixes.
Thanks.
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I have found that we have a way of checking if the Hungarian translation that is returned by Google or Chrome is more or less correct. It is, translating the text back into English. If the text returned is similar to the original, we are on the right track...
Great idea!
If you are working from the July copy you should be ok - I think I've only fiddled with the title page with a new photo. But the description of the links/jumpers will still be wrong (except fopr ADDR, that hasn't changed).
B.
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I will return you the Spanish ODT file, so later you can add what you want.
I also will translate the Hungarian error messages, but don't take them as the definitive. You know... I want a Spanish Rom of it..
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You know... I want a Spanish Rom of it..
You will get one :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
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More ahead I will do an automatic Hungarian translation.
I have found that we have a way of checking if the Hungarian translation that is returned by Google or Chrome is more or less correct. It is, translating the text back into English. If the text returned is similar to the original, we are on the right track...
This will give us a translation more or less like those of the prospects of Chinese products....
Later it will be easier for a qualified human translator to make the final fixes.
Thanks.
Please, don't! Hungarian differs from every language in the world so much, there is no even a barely similar one to it, I literally say that I have not seen a normal google translation to hungarian. I think I possess the capability to translate the manual to hungarian and I would be more than happy to do so - from english. :) If a version is ready that's worth to translate, then I will start working on it, just tell me when it's ready.
Cheers,
Kapitány
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Please, don't! Hungarian differs from every language in the world so much, there is no even a barely similar one to it, I literally say that I have not seen a normal google translation to hungarian. I think I possess the capability to translate the manual to hungarian and I would be more than happy to do so - from english. :) If a version is ready that's worth to translate, then I will start working on it, just tell me when it's ready.
Cheers,
Kapitány
It's interesting ...
What gflorez translates from Hungarian into English (Enterpress) is perfect. :)
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I can say the same, Hungarian is a very special language. Is for that, in my automatic translations, I still need an Hungarian reader that compare the texts to see how much detail have been lost.
My procedure is:
I only give simple sentences to Google translator, so I divide a paragraph at the grammar punctuation, like point, comma, semi-colon etc. Google is very good with short sentences.
Then I read the returned English text. It may be intelligible or not, but even if it is a well constructed sentence, it must match with the context of the paragraph. Sometimes Google returns an alternative translation if a click is done over the translated text.
On the totally wrong I divide the Hungarian sentence in its words, and even some times I divide the compound words. On the worst cases I search the word on an online Hungarian-English dictionary...
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Please Kapitany, do it! Bruce will be glad if you accomplish a good translation!
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I tried some English->Hungarian translations on google, and WOW, it improved a lot! But I still think it is easier for someone from the IT sector to translate a text from english to hungarian, than to translate a hungle text to hungarian. :)
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Yes, it is very technical, and loooong. A very good made manual that explains every little aspect from the card.
It also contains the best explanation about the Enterprise memory map that I have read.
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Yes, it is very technical, and loooong. A very good made manual that explains every little aspect from the card.
It also contains the best explanation about the Enterprise memory map that I have read.
Then it especially deserves a good translation, and will be a joy to translate! :)
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Great!, because Bruce wanted an Hungarian translation before the release of the card....
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Just notify me when the manual is ready to be translated! ;)
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I have sent you a PM. Thanks.
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This looks exciting!
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Bruce: great :D Now I have the idea, after reading the manual, that I understand now what the company could feel after giving the task to you to write a BASIC interpreter for the new machine and seeing IS-BASIC: "wow ... " :)
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Preliminary Spanish translation of the EPNET manual.
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Wow! Thank you gflorez, that looks really good :smt041 :smt041 :smt041 (even though I cannot understand most of it! :lol:)
The page numbers seem to have got lost but I'm sure that is easily fixed!
If you want to change the header at the top of the page, it is not obvious, but click on: File, Properties, Description tab, and the Title is what appears in the header.
Can I use your error message translations to make a Spanish version of the code?
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I have put the PDF on the Retrowiki Spanish web. I want to hear some critics about the whole text and error messages. I have translated all the technical terms to Spanish, but some of them have been used here so many time with its English name that may be I should leave them with the original name so that the text can be better understood.
But I also want to do a second pass to reform some sentences or fix errors.
On about two days I will give you the final ODT file. Then you only have to put new text in English and return it to me to translate it when you want.
There are more "translatable" text on the ROM(the text used by the language ROM), for example the HELP messages and some output from commands. Can you give me all the text at once? I will try to put it on shorter sentences, but Spanish is not as condensed as English.
Yes, the page numbers... Google usually gives an additional CR not present on the original paragraph text, so at the end of the translation I realised that some pages had very big gapes....
Thanks on the tip of the page header, it is a very complex editor. It is the only text that is still untranslated...
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There are more "translatable" text on the ROM(the text used by the language ROM), for example the HELP messages and some output from commands. Can you give me all the text at once? I will try to put it on shorter sentences, but Spanish is not as condensed as English.
Yes as soon as I clicked "Post" I realised there is the help text etc too! I have a separate .asm source file for language-specific things so I will send you that - if I try and enter Spanish myself there will almost certainly be a mistake or two which I will not be able to notice. I try and make all the error messages and help text fit on a 40 column screen but even in English it can be tricky at times.
it is a very complex editor
Yes and a bit buggy in places, eg text flow around pictures and different layers in drawings. I avoid the text flow problems by making the text flow "through" the pictures and use margins or tabs to position it, and the drawing layer problem (you might see with the little link drawings) I have found can be avoided by grouping them all as one, but I can sort that out later in all three versions.
It is the first time I have used Libre Office and was trying it out as a possible substitute for Microsoft Word. It does the job but runs very slowly sometimes, written in interpreted Python I think. My main desktop computer failed a while ago, and Libre Office runs much better on my new one :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
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Which is not clear to me yet :)
Will the first version of the EPNET card be wifi or UTP?
On the picture is UTP.
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I'm not the right one to talk about EPNET, but...
The pictures on the EPNET 1.2 user manual are outdated, they are from the 1.0 version of the card, "only" an Ethernet card.
This is an actual picture of the 1.2 version:
(https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/epnet-1-2/?action=dlattach;attach=18325;image)
Here more features have been added, like extra RAM/ROM and Compact Flash storage.
The WIFI EPNET card is still in development. It shares the same card but swapping the WIZNet W5300 module by a cheap ESP8266 WiFi module. Of course the controlling software is different.
But Bruce is now working on version 1.3 of the EPNET card, fixing some signal noise incompatibilities with EP64s.
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Current position: I have a almost-complete PCB layout for the wifi module but there is still a lot of work to do yet. At the moment I am concentrating on getting some EPNET cards out to a couple of other people other people for further "beta" testing.
The good news is I have finally fixed the signal noise problems! I will save the technical details for another post, but there are some EPs that are "problematic", mostly ISSUE 4 PCB EP64s, that will not work with add-on hardware such as Microteam cards and sometimes original EXDOS cards. I am lucky enough to have one of these EP64s :lol: and EPNET is now working happily with it.
In case you are wondering, the LEDs in the photo are on legs because it can fit in a box, and they need to poke through the lid!
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Thanks for the information, Bruce! :)
Can I get a card for beta testing? :)
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"The good news is I have finally fixed the signal noise problems! I will save the technical details for another post,...."
I am eager waiting for you to reveal those details, to know if the fixes can be applied easily to older expansion cards, even putting the fixes on a Bridge Connector...
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I am eager waiting for you to reveal those details, to know if the fixes can be applied easily to older expansion cards, even putting the fixes on a Bridge Connector...
Yes with just two capacitors I have successfully "fixed" a Microteam EXDOS card so that it works on my "bad" EP64, which it did not before the fix. It is not really a proper fix using only capacitors as there are still glitches around but on the "fixed" signals they are now just small enough not to cause trouble (ie. <0.8V); on the other signals (address lines etc), well, who knows?, it seems to work! :shock: :lol:. I only did it to prove my theory, I have already "unfixed" it again because it is useful to me for EPNET testing.
The full EPNET fix to suppress a glitch is a resistor with the capacitor but as it is not practical to do this to every z80 signal (or is it...? :lol:), EPNET does it on it's memory address decoding output, I/O address decoding output and a few other selected signals. Five pairs of R and C in total.
The downside is that there are signal timing implications - a R & C will delay the signal a bit - so I am keen to see if it works at 10MHz!
So yes it should be possible to bodge a Bridge Connector, or even to fix a "bad" EP internally.
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I am eager waiting for you to reveal those details
https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/glitch-on-rd/msg66632/#msg66632 (https://enterpriseforever.com/hardware/glitch-on-rd/msg66632/#msg66632)
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The "deep water" testing when I can try with my "few" machines :-)
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The "deep water" testing when I can try with my "few" machines :-)
Will be interesting...the thing I am most worried about now is 10MHz :shock: :shock: :shock:
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So thinking ahead ... :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
Is there a text-based browser on the CP/M system?
Or can you then write program something on EP? (index.html file reading)
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Is there a text-based browser on the CP/M system?
No I don't think so, CP/M was too far before the internet.
Or can you then write program something on EP? (index.html file reading)
I have written a simple text-based browser in C that will display a .html file, but it only goes from top to bottom. Doing page up/down while preserving the formatting is another thing altogether. I think there is an open-source text-based browser, I've forgotten what it is called, but that too looked rather complicated!
Even http: is a bit out of date now, many web sites have now moved to https: (eg. enterpriseforever.com!) :shock: :shock: :shock:
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I took some photos today to update the User Manual.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
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This is something wonderful!!! :)
:smt041 :smt041 :smt041
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Great! I put the pictures on the Spanish web page.
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coooooooooool :smt041
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Wow - I'm an old EP enthusiast and I've just found out about EPNET. Sounds really exciting. Great to see there are so many EP hardware projects still going on in 2017!
And even better that EPNET is being made by Bruce Tanner - who wrote the original IS BASIC. Brilliant!
Can't wait for it to be released...
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I hope I can start translating the manual during the holidays - if there is still need for it :)
K
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Yes, please....
If you want I can make a preliminary translation for you.
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Yes, please....
If you want I can make a preliminary translation for you.
We might try this method on the first few pages, and then we'll see if it boosts the translation procedure or not. :)
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Ok, I will send you texts by PM.
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Hello Bruce.
I've been thinking... What would be more durable in time, Ethernet or Wfi? surely Wifi, but it is constantly evolving, its protocols change every time a new vulnerability is discovered.
But the old good RJ45 cable is here to stay.
One way to have both worlds with EPNET without changing to the esp8266 Wifi module is to got a Wifi range extender like this:
(http://static.tp-link.com/res/images/products/gallery/TL-WA860RE-02.jpg)
But there are a lot of them commercialised with similar characteristics. They have a RJ45 plug to connect wired devices but maintaining the Wifi commodity on our "laboratory", by definition not reached by Internet...
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Hi gflorez,
I bought something similar from China but it came with Chinese instructions and I could not get it to work. :mad:
Then I discovered Netgear made something similar, so should be more reputable. But then discovered they have now stopped making it. :mad: So I found a used one on eBay, but I couldn't get that to work at all, I think it was faulty. :mad: :mad:
But yes, should be possible, it's just that I haven't managed it yet!
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I already use one of this on my house, for about two years. But until now I didn't realize this possible use.
Basically what it does is a mirror of the router's wifi point access, although you can hook it while creating a new zone with different wifi protocol and password. Once remotely connected to the router, the added RJ45 plug acts like a direct link from the user's point of view. I don't know if it gets a new IP address from the router or from the range extender.
I bought mine in a discount in a large warehouse of electrical appliances. It is not a strange device, but rather common. Here in Spain the prices start from about 25 Euros.
At first use it creates its own wifi zone, being accessed by the provided key. Then a web-page(for example: http:// 192.168.1.0/) is accessed on the web-browser for configuration and searching of the target wifi zone.
It was very easy to set it up.
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I will try another one! Making legacy ethernet devices work on wifi must be a very common problem!
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Yes, is what I've thought. If a new Wifi encryption protocol is introduced, lets say, on next ten years, we could buy a new wifi range extender adapted to the new protocol.
And then EPNET will continue working with obsolescence built out....
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with obsolescence built out....
:lol:
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Is there any news regarding this very nice project :-)
It reminds a lot of this great card that I have for my MSX Turbo-R: https://www.msx.org/wiki/GR8NET
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I was hoping not to have to write this, but sadly I have to report that EPNET is on hold for now because of an unusual problem I have had since last November: my house (and workshop) have been invaded by biting bird mites. I have spent a small fortune with pest control companies but nothing they have done has got rid of the mites. My strategy now is too stay away from my house as much as possible (ie. all day, every day) in order to starve the mites out (they are blood feeders).
It is an uncommon problem but it is clear from other peoples' stories on the internet that this could go on for months or even years. I am grateful that it does not threaten my health, but it has put my life on hold.
I am very sorry to anyone waiting for EPNET, and particularly to gflorez and zozo who have put time into translations, but there is nothing I can do at the moment.
I have put a lot of time and work into EPNET and it is very painful to have to abandon it, but I have no choice.
If anyone is in a position to continue the project or a related project I'd be happy to send h/w design files and s/w source code, and help with knowledge and expertise. I like to think I will continue it again in the future but currently I just cannot say when that might be.
Sorry,
B.
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Life's sucks :(
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:shock: :cry:
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Really sorry to hear that! :-(
I hope you get them starved out quickly.
Please let us know if we can do anything to help.
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Sad news :cry: I hope those mites will die soon, and you can live in your house.
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Bruce, this is terrible :(
We pray that everything will be right for you.
Let me know if we can help you something!
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sad bruce,
I am also busy with a new type of network card. TMTNET
now first for the CPC later also hope for MSX and Enterprise
the specs are amazing.
it is becoming a bit of my life work haha.
but I still have a long way to go. so still a little patience
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I think this is the best place to put this.
http://www.symbos.de/appinfo.htm?00027
It can be that these drivers and sources can be tailored to make EPNet and Simbiface3 NET drivers for SymbOS.
EPNet ones can be easier, because the chip used on the EP card is an evolution of the Wiznet W5100, already used on two of the MSX net cards.
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EPNet ones can be easier, because the chip used on the EP card is an evolution of the Wiznet W5100, already used on two of the MSX net cards.
Yes, that's what LGB does. He just needs help. You've been waiting for Prodatron's answer for weeks ...
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Don't think that Jörn(Prodatron) is concentrated on SF3 development..... Hans(TMTLogic) is always waiting him to appear and finish the necessary SymbOS drivers.
I think that better we aid ourselves, or this development can last decades....
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I think this is the best place to put this.
EPNet ones can be easier, because the chip used on the EP card is an evolution of the Wiznet W5100, already used on two of the MSX net cards.
Of course, it's understandable that Prodatron writes drivers for SF3.
Network Daemon, as you wrote, has a Wiz 5100 driver. I don't think there should be many changes (there is Wiz5300 in EPNET). Bruce gave me the info about the ports.
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Yes the W5300 and W5100 are very similar, but the W5300 is a 16-bit device. You can read/write the high and low bytes separately, but you always have to read/write 2 bytes, even when you only want one byte eg the last byte of a packet :roll:. It leads to complications in the code :roll: :roll: and bugs :roll: :roll: :roll:!
The W5300 is higher performance and has more RAM, but I think the limiting factor for performance is probably the z80!