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Author Topic: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t! (Read 21011 times)

Online gflorez

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #90 on: 2017.February.27. 11:33:21 »
I have found a silicone bouncing ball of about 31,3mm diameter. Once mechanised the moulding flanges with sandpaper, it seems to have the minimum measure. I will test it this evening at home.
« Last Edit: 2017.February.27. 11:46:55 by gflorez »

Online gflorez

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #91 on: 2017.February.27. 23:52:50 »
It seems to work with this little Basic program:

10 PRINT JOY(1)
20 GOTO 10


Then I have tested the mouse with the EGI, to discover that one of the pulleys is a lightly eccentric, so the vertical coordinate doesn't work very well.

Also the resolution is very low, I have to lift the mouse two times to make one fast diagonal. But I have also noticed that I don't have to lift the mouse with a slower movement. I have to move at its rhythm...   

It can be that on a text environment it is enough.

I want to know if a 32mm ball could fill better the hole. Tomorrow I will buy some more gum washers to find the perfect pulley to continue the tests. 
« Last Edit: 2017.February.28. 00:14:25 by gflorez »

Offline geco

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #92 on: 2017.February.28. 08:36:00 »
Congrat, the 1st almost repaired Patkány ;)

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #93 on: 2017.March.01. 00:55:49 »
You said it, almost...

I have bought four more gum washers, but now I can see that they are all very bad cut. It is a miracle to have found one that is perfect. I will mechanise them to work.

And about the ball, I have found a nice bag of bouncing balls on a party shop. but they have at least 33mm dia.. I have to grind one of them to a perfect sphere of 32mm.

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #94 on: 2017.March.05. 12:35:25 »
Here you can see some patkány action. The resolution of the movement is near to zero.... But if the mouse is slowly moved it can serve for the EGI.

Now I know what the extra buttons do. The Left switch deactivates the vertical movement, and the Right one cancels the horizontal movement. It can be seen on the video.





Edit: sorry for the vertical video, Later I will try to fix it.
« Last Edit: 2017.March.05. 16:48:54 by gflorez »

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #95 on: 2017.March.05. 16:04:39 »
Now I know what do the extra buttons. The Left switch deactivates the vertical movement, and the Right one cancels the horizontal movement.
:shock: Crazy...

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #96 on: 2017.March.05. 16:59:42 »
Here is the fixed video.

This test has been done with a 31mm ball, but it is too loose in the hole when the patkány turns. I have to test it with a 32mm ball.
« Last Edit: 2017.March.05. 22:27:35 by gflorez »

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #97 on: 2017.April.01. 02:14:06 »
As I have explained here, the mainboard edge connectors are displaced from the square holes of the case, on some Enterprise units more than on others.

The female Edge connectors used on the Patkány plug have very narrow contacts. The housing is very well constructed, and fits very precisely on the square hole of the computer case. But this precision causes problems of  misalignment on some Enterprises with more displaced mainboard.

So, I suggest as the very first step to refurbish an original Enterprise mouse, to replace the old female edge connector with modern two contacts per pin ones.

The problem here is, that female edge connector used on the Patkány has a channel on both sides of the bakelite body, where it is held in place inside the plug housing. Modern female edge connectors lack that channel so, some modification has to be done.

Online gflorez

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #98 on: 2017.April.07. 10:08:58 »
Now I see that several things influenced the failure of the product:

- It has an outdated conception even for the time. I mean, having to press the mouse against the table.

-The cable goes to the user, but it has to be plugged behind the Enterprise.

 -It is not proportional, I imagine because the control ports do not have a return pin and it was impossible to implement. Instead it was chosen to imitate a Joystick, which was not used to handle the editor of Basic or the word processor. But almost nothing for games either. In that world that until then had worked without mice, how to convince people to use it in that conditions?

-It is certainly one of the most bizarre mice I have ever seen, of appearance, but rare even in the usefulness of the three buttons. The middle is the main, the other two cancel out one of the coordinates. For what?

 - Over time the rubber ball and pulleys have decomposed, but in fact it could have been decades in poor condition, even shortly after being manufactured.

On the other hand, there is no denying the good manufacturing of plastic molding, and the good quality of the cable and connector.

But above all, I can now say that the fiasco was due to the fact that it did not work in all Enterprises, a fault not attributable to Aztec (it was the company that made it for Enterprise Computers Ltd.), but to that there was an alignment defect on the rear ports of the computer.

Many thanks to Sinclair200 for being so kind to lend it to me.
« Last Edit: 2017.April.07. 11:11:08 by gflorez »

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #99 on: 2017.April.07. 10:45:51 »
These are the reason why it is called as rat :-)

Offline SlashNet

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #100 on: 2017.April.07. 13:02:51 »
Few days ago I found that Nidd Valley DigiMouse for BBC Micro is very similar for EP mouse.
Press ENTER to exit BASIC

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #101 on: 2017.April.07. 13:23:14 »
Few days ago I found that Nidd Valley DigiMouse for BBC Micro is very similar for EP mouse.
Wow! Awesome find!
The rubber components also missing from these :-)

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #102 on: 2017.April.07. 13:50:54 »
Good find!

This picture is from another page. The sphere dome resembles a lot to the Patkány.



But it is made of optical encoders.

This is the manual.

Curiously, it has a mode that behaves the same as the Patkány buttons:



And also the cable has been put on the wrong side...
« Last Edit: 2017.April.07. 14:06:23 by gflorez »

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #103 on: 2017.April.07. 19:36:24 »
More evidences that the two mice share the same mechanics:

On this Link, chriskgnr, probably the same Chris, says:

"Hello to everyone!
I purchased from e(vil)bay a Nidd Valley DigiMouse for my BBC micro. :) Althought it was stated in the auction that the ball is missing, i thought that i could replace it with a standard mouse ball. I was wrong, because DigiMouse uses a ball with a much bigger diameter(32-33mm i think). :? I tried some other solutions like plastic balls, iron balls but with no avail. :( Does anyone in here, knows where can i purchase a ball that works with the DigiMouse? :D"


To me it reminds me a lot of things that have been said in this thread....

Offline geco

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Re: Javítsunk "Patkány"-t!
« Reply #104 on: 2017.April.07. 19:37:53 »
To me it reminds me a lot of things that have been said in this thread....
:ds_icon_cheesygrin: