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Author Topic: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer) (Read 65575 times)

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #150 on: 2013.February.24. 00:07:28 »
Quote from: BruceTanner
I did not even know about that one...good start :)
It is used for many IS-BASIC games.
But now when drew our attention to the FORTH, I will be a very curious: game which is running very slow on IS-BASIC then possible running enough fast if using IS-FORTH?

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #151 on: 2013.February.24. 00:10:42 »
Quote from: Tuby128
There is a YouTube video about this Zzzip compiler. It shows how much faster can be a programm before and after the conversion. Zozo, could you provide a link? I didn't find that.
It is a video file what we got from the author (Peter Hiner).

Offline Tuby128

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #152 on: 2013.February.24. 00:22:32 »
In my oppinion Forth is faster, because it is a stack oriented language (if I good rember Z80 stack operations is more faster, than direct memory access; -  see: Latter Exos memory test with PUSH instructions), and the other hand, Mr Tanner's forth wasn't "hand" compiled from C, as IS-BASIC was.
 Mr Tanner, was your Forth extension an interpreter or a compiler?

@hun:
Véleményem szerint a Forth azért gyorsabb, mert az egy verem orientált nyelv (ha jól emlékszem a Z80 verem alapú utasításai gyorsabbak, mint a direkt memória hozzáférése; - Lásd: Későbbi Exos memoria teszt PUSH utasításokkal),  másrészt Tanner Úr forth bővítője már nem kézzel fordított volt C-ből, mint az IS-BASIC volt.
 Tanner Úr, az Ön Forth-ja valós időben fordított (interpreter) vagy előre fordított (compiler)?

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #153 on: 2013.February.24. 00:53:52 »
Quote from: Zozosoft
It is a video file what we got from the author (Peter Hiner).
Hmmm...that screen full of letters is not being written by calling EXOS is it?!

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #154 on: 2013.February.24. 01:01:28 »
Quote from: Tuby128
In my oppinion Forth is faster, because it is a stack oriented language (if I good rember Z80 stack operations is more faster, than direct memory access; -  see: Latter Exos memory test with PUSH instructions), and the other hand, Mr Tanner's forth wasn't "hand" compiled from C, as IS-BASIC was.
 Mr Tanner, was your Forth extension an interpreter or a compiler?

@hun:
Véleményem szerint a Forth azért gyorsabb, mert az egy verem orientált nyelv (ha jól emlékszem a Z80 verem alapú utasításai gyorsabbak, mint a direkt memória hozzáférése; - Lásd: Későbbi Exos memoria teszt PUSH utasításokkal),  másrészt Tanner Úr forth bővítője már nem kézzel fordított volt C-ből, mint az IS-BASIC volt.
 Tanner Úr, az Ön Forth-ja valós időben fordított (interpreter) vagy előre fordított (compiler)?
I think FORTH would be faster but it looks as though zzzip has it's own I/o which IS-FORTH does not (it uses EXOS calls) so that would win it for zzzip in a test like the one in that video.

FORTH is half compiler and half interpreter, but it is a lower-level language than BASIC - closer to the machine.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #155 on: 2013.February.24. 01:15:33 »
Quote from: BruceTanner
Hmmm...that screen full of letters is not being written by calling EXOS is it?!
Yes, not EXOS. SPOKE :-)
8683-0

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #156 on: 2013.February.24. 01:27:26 »
Quote from: BruceTanner
I think FORTH would be faster but it looks as though zzzip has it's own I/o which IS-FORTH does not (it uses EXOS calls) so that would win it for zzzip in a test like the one in that video.
Now we see the "no EXOS" trick is in the original BASIC program. (But the speed enhancement for the SPOKEs cycle is also impressive!)

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #157 on: 2013.February.24. 01:52:53 »
Quote from: Zozosoft
Now we see the "no EXOS" trick is in the original BASIC program. (But the speed enhancement for the SPOKEs cycle is also impressive!)
Yes indeed it is impressive - didn't realise the IS-BASIC version was also bypassing EXOS!

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #158 on: 2013.February.24. 11:18:38 »
I noticed another Intelligent Software product:
Spectrum BASIC Converter
8688-0

It is have these parts:
SPECTAPE: EXOS extension with the SPECTAPE: device, for loading Spectrum files from tape
SPECEDIT: IS-BASIC extension, this is the main converter program
SPECGOTO: IS-BASIC extension with new GOTO and GOSUB instructions, needed when the origanal program use variable expressions as GOTO/GOSUB parameter
SPECCOLO, SPECGRAPH some predefined routines, can be merged with the converted program if needed

Can you remember about this package? You wrote it?
Somewhere I readed promise of same package for other BASICs, but never see other version.

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #159 on: 2013.February.24. 12:38:16 »
Quote from: Zozosoft
I noticed another Intelligent Software product:
Spectrum BASIC Converter
(Attachment Link)

It is have these parts:
SPECTAPE: EXOS extension with the SPECTAPE: device, for loading Spectrum files from tape
SPECEDIT: IS-BASIC extension, this is the main converter program
SPECGOTO: IS-BASIC extension with new GOTO and GOSUB instructions, needed when the origanal program use variable expressions as GOTO/GOSUB parameter
SPECCOLO, SPECGRAPH some predefined routines, can be merged with the converted program if needed

Can you remember about this package? You wrote it?
Somewhere I readed promise of same package for other BASICs, but never see other version.
No I don't remember it but it was clearly written by someone at IS. There are a few people who were connected with the Enterprise software whos contributiuon I cannot recall - it was probably one of them (eg. those whose initials appear at the end of the line on SET STATUS 42 or who are unnamed in the Your Computer photo). I would not trust anything with a version number of 0.04! :smt103

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #160 on: 2013.February.25. 09:27:37 »
Quote from: BruceTanner
I would not trust anything with a version number of 0.04! :smt103
:lol: but this the officially released version what you can bought in the shops!
IS-LISP is also version 0...
8700-0
Interesting: it is dated 1984, many time before the collapse, why not higher version released?

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #161 on: 2013.February.25. 09:47:19 »
Quote from: Zozosoft
:lol: but this the officially released version what you can bought in the shops!
IS-LISP is also version 0...
(Attachment Link)
Interesting: it is dated 1984, many time before the collapse, why not higher version released?
Oh yes, I had not seen that. Maybe we did not mind releasing something called 0.x in those days. In all my subsequent career 0.x was always during development, and moved to 1.0 just before first release. Lisp was written by Mark Richer who is in the Your Computer photo. I think he may have still been at University when he started, and then joined IS full-time when he graduated.

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #162 on: 2013.February.25. 09:55:22 »
I now have the answer to the question of which is faster, zzzip BASIC or FORTH at the screen-filling test, as I have written the same thing in FORTH, using the same loops, algorithms and SPOKE. The answer is that it is close but I think zzzip is a little bit faster.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #163 on: 2013.February.25. 10:05:32 »
Quote from: BruceTanner
I have written the same thing in FORTH, using the same loops, algorithms and SPOKE. The answer is that it is close but I think zzzip is a little bit faster.
Great! Can you post this program?
I suggest start a FORTH topic, what do you think?

Offline BruceTanner

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Re: Q&A with Bruce Tanner (IS-BASIC writer)
« Reply #164 on: 2013.February.25. 10:21:45 »
Quote from: Zozosoft
Great! Can you post this program?
I suggest start a FORTH topic, what do you think?
yes I will post later when I'm on the desktop computer! And I'll start a new topic when I do it!