Enterprise Forever
:UK => Games => Topic started by: markerror on 2011.April.26. 23:11:34
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Hello,
I have just discovered the "Enterprise side" of the 8bits scene. That's a real surprise for me to see
that this nice but uncommon computer has fans and a strong activity.
I decided to register on this forum and to post this message to talk about Sub Hunter. I am the author
of the AY music of the CPC release of this game. I have downloaded it, and I must admit that I have been
disappointed by the "sound side" of the game. Most of the music are not well converted, drums and
hardware waves don't sounds correctly. I don't know if that's just a emulator problem (not sure).
If it is not so, I would like to understand why (Dave seems to have similar capabilities as AY) and maybe help
to correct the music, as I get the "original" tunes. All music have been done under Starkos, a cpc soundtracker.
I have tested other CPC ports, and I have been surprised to find hackers' name (Mc Spe) in the Exolon
loading screen ! If you need clean releases of CPC games for your ports, you can go to :
http://www.cpc-power.com
Sorry for my bad english...
Yours
T&J/GPA
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Hello and wlcome in the forum :)
I converted the game :) Unfortunately the music could not be well converted, because Dave does not have envelope feature, and the program converted to 50Hz interrupt which is not enough for software emulation for envelopes, the AY music is using using very short envelopes.
Dave have similar capabilities, in some point it is better, in some point it is worse than AY.
Dave have
3 tone generator (frequency: 125,000 / (n+1) Hz. ), it has polynomial counter distortion, high pass filter, ring modulator option
1 noise channel which frequency can be 32.25 kHz, frequency of tone channel 0,1,2, some polynomial counter option can be set, and high/low pass filter, and ring modulator can be set to specific tone channels.
Register 7: enable/disable tone channel 0,1,2, turn on/off 2 6 bit D/A output channel, DAVE generated interrupt rate: 1kHz, 50Hz, tone generator 0/1 frequency.
3 volume control (6bit) for left side, and 3 volume control for right side ( if D/A is enabled 2 of them are D/A output)
And Envelope is not implemented :(
Thank you very much for the link, I used http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/ (http://http://www.cpcgamereviews.com/)
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Welcome to the forum!
3 volume control (6bit) for left side, and 3 volume control for right side ( if D/A is enabled 2 of them are D/A output)
You mean 4-4 volume controls? There are 1-1 ones for the noise channel too, aren't there? (Though I tried only IS-BASIC sound so I might not be right.)
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Hello,
If the problem is only the enveloppe, the right solution is to remove them in the tunes :-). I have done that quicky this evening. You will find there updated SKS music of Sub Hunter. I have replaced the instrument 3 by another one (that uses a very simple scheme to sound not too badly). I don't know if the volume of this instrument is ok in every tune, as I have done the job under a CPC emulator, Winape.
To obtain binary files from the SKS files, just launch the GS program from the Starkos archive. The files can be found there :
http://tj.gpa.free.fr/temp/subhunt.zip
That would be nice if "Sub hunter Enterprise" could have decent music :-).
T&J/GPA
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Is a another possible problem: on the AY is can be used a sound+noise on each channel. On the Dave 3 sound channel and separate noise channel. If the AY music is only use one noise effect, then easy can be converted to Dave. But if the AY music use many noise effect in same time, then hard to convert.
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To obtain binary files from the SKS files, just launch the GS program from the Starkos archive. The files can be found there :
http://tj.gpa.free.fr/temp/subhunt.zip
That would be nice if "Sub hunter Enterprise" could have decent music :-).
T&J/GPA
Bonjour Hervé
I will change the music in Sub Hunter. We will see if noises are ok :)
Thank you very much :)
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You mean 4-4 volume controls? There are 1-1 ones for the noise channel too, aren't there? (Though I tried only IS-BASIC sound so I might not be right.)
Yes, you are right, there are 3 volume control left for tune, 1 for noise, and 3 volume control right for tune, and 1 for noise.
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I created binary from the songs, unfortunately GS creates ST10 format, and the game contains songs in AT10 format, I could not test it. Could you help me please, which program should be used to generate binary in AT10 format?
Another reason could be why the drums are not perfect: for emulating more noise channels the tone generators are used with 7bit polynomial counter distortion.
I created another version, the difference is only that CPC noise value multipled by 8 not by 4, I hear that it is not the same as on CPC, but it seems to be better, but I do not have white ears :D
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Hello,
Well, it seems that Axelay has not used Starkos but a PC program, "Arkos tracker" to compilate the tunes. It's a tool done by Targhan/Arkos that needs .NET. It can import Starkos files and export them as binary files for many computers (Amstrad CPC, Msx, Spectrum if I remember well).
I will check tomorrow the music to verify that "noises" are only used at a time on one channel.
Yours
Hervé
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Hello,
Well, it seems that Axelay has not used Starkos but a PC program, "Arkos tracker" to compilate the tunes. It's a tool done by Targhan/Arkos that needs .NET. It can import Starkos files and export them as binary files for many computers (Amstrad CPC, Msx, Spectrum if I remember well).
I will check tomorrow the music to verify that "noises" are only used at a time on one channel.
Yours
Hervé
Merci beaucoup
I checked menu music only, there sometimes 2 noise channel are active for a short time, but if the game uses only one noise channel, then we can use noise channel of EP :) Other thing, is it possible to create a good drum effect without using noise channel?
I will check Arkos tracker.
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I downloaded Arkos Tracker, it is a very good tool, I checked the samples, and I found that when the drum is played it uses tone and noise on the same channel, we are not able to emulate it with DAVE, because if we want to set a specific noise frequency we have to use one tone channel to set the frequency, if we do not set any frequency for noise at any tone channel, then noise generator plays 30 kHz white noise.
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I created two new versions for music (short musics are not ok yet, but if you like this solution, I will correct them), EP128emu 2.0.9 snaphots were placed into the zip file, could you please check it?
Both version works in the same way, the difference is only that noise volume is half of the other. In these versions the noise generator frequency is fix 30kHz, and value of AY noise register is loaded into DAVE noise volume controls.
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Hello Geco
I will check this :-). I have just finished to "clean" the music, so now, only one voice uses the noise generator. I have too corrected some faultly notes in the menu tune. I hope like that, it would be easier to convert.
New files can be found there :
http://tj.gpa.free.fr/temp/subhunt_v2.zip
Hervé
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Hi again...
I have listened to your test, that's better than original Enterprise sounds but does not sound like loud drums. I have made some updates to the music (except for the Bonus stage) that may help to have a better result (all drums in a music use the same note).
http://tj.gpa.free.fr/temp/subhunt_v3.zip
Hervé
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Hi again...
I have listened to your test, that's better than original Enterprise sounds but does not sound like loud drums. I have made some updates to the music (except for the Bonus stage) that may help to have a better result (all drums in a music use the same note).
http://tj.gpa.free.fr/temp/subhunt_v3.zip
Hervé
Hello Hervé
Yes :(, I think the loud drum effect can solve if we interrupt the sound on another channel to set the noise for drums.
Which version is better versiona.ep128s or versionb.128s?
Thank you very much for your help, and work, I will try to insert the modified music into SH next week.
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Hello,
Well, in my last message, i have forgotten to answer you :-). I think the second test is better.
Hervé
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Now I should remember which is the second :D If I do not find out, I will check it again :)
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Hi,
I think the versionb.128s sounds better :-). Not perfect, but nicer than the first snapshot.
Hervé
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Hi,
I think the versionb.128s sounds better :-). Not perfect, but nicer than the first snapshot.
Hervé
thank you for your help :)
It is another test version :)
This version works in the following way: if noise value of AY register 6 is 01 then it plays 30kHz noise on enterprise noise channel, if AY reg 6>01 then stops channel 3 and plays polynomial distortion with value AY reg 6 x 4 on it (it is similar to sound of noise channel), only channel 0 and 1 plays noise with >01 value, and if noise value <=1 then channel 3 is restored.
Is this version good, or I should involve noise channel for all noise values?
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Hi Gecco,
Some tunes are good to me now (tunes 1 and 9). Other sound a little strange but I think modifying a little bit the instruments that might be ok too. I will make some more updates on the music files.
Hervé
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Hi Gecco,
Some tunes are good to me now (tunes 1 and 9). Other sound a little strange but I think modifying a little bit the instruments that might be ok too. I will make some more updates on the music files.
Hervé
I modified littlebit the tunes :D Noises were inserted back to the instruments, and in one instrument it was decreased from 3 to 1 (original was 130000, new 110000)
I will create a version, which uses noise channel :)
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And here are some other version with noise generator only :D
1/2 vol : same or half volume level of the channel where noise is played on CPC
00/30 dis: distortion used or not
2/4 ay6: value of AY register 6 is multiplied by 2 or 4
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Hello,
Sorry for the delay :-(. I have updated a little bit the music, thinking it would fit better the noise effect. I have shorten some "drums" and their volume is a little bit lower. I hope with that changes the tunes should be now good.
I have listened your tests with only noise effect, that's a little bit hard to choose. But, I think I prefer this one : v2vol30dis4ay6.ep128s
Time to go to bed...
Hervé
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Hello,
Sorry for the delay :-(. I have updated a little bit the music, thinking it would fit better the noise effect. I have shorten some "drums" and their volume is a little bit lower. I hope with that changes the tunes should be now good.
I have listened your tests with only noise effect, that's a little bit hard to choose. But, I think I prefer this one : v2vol30dis4ay6.ep128s
Time to go to bed...
Hervé
No problem, thank you very much for your work :)
I had the same problem when I listened them v1vol*.ep128s were not so good, but v2vol*.ep128s was much better, and I could not choose either :)
I hope I can create a test version today, if not then it will be ready on the weekend.
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Here are 2 test versions from the newest musuc version :)
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Here are 2 test versions from the newest musuc version :)
Hello Gecco,
I am on holidays, so I will not update the music before next week. That's now close to be perfect, but I
think there is still works for me on one or two tunes. Sorry for this delay :-(.
Hervé
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Hello Gecco,
I am on holidays, so I will not update the music before next week. That's now close to be perfect, but I
think there is still works for me on one or two tunes. Sorry for this delay :-(.
Hervé
Bonjour Hervé
No problem, I am waiting for next update :)
Have a nice holiday:)
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Hello Gecco,
I have update the Starkos files. In fact, I have only made little changes on WON.SKS (new drum), it might be ok now. About your last tests, I prefer the sounds of 2ay6.
Now, back to holidays :-).
Yours.
Hervé
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Sub_hunter V5 in easter egg :)
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Sub_hunter V5 in easter egg :)
Awesome!
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Sub_hunter V5 in easter egg :)
Hi,
Well, there is still a problem with the WON.SKS music. There are some drums that are not present in the CPC release. I have checked the music looking for sounds that use not properly the blank noise but found none. So it might be a problem of conversion :-). Other tunes are now quite perfect !
Hervé
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I have modified WON music, added the missing noises from CPC version, could you please check it?
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Meanwhile I found the reason of extra drums, I placed noise to a tune where I should not do :D , and here is the new version of Sub Hunter (http://enterpriseforever.com/dlattach.html;topic=193.0;attach=6709) with the modified musics, and player :)
Thank you very much for your great work, and help Hervé, I listen the easter egg since 1 hour on EP128emu :)
Merci Beaucoup ;)
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Meanwhile I found the reason of extra drums, I placed noise to a tune where I should not do :D , and here is the new version of Sub Hunter (http://enterpriseforever.com/dlattach.html;topic=193.0;attach=6608) with the modified musics, and player :)
Thank you very much for your great work, and help Hervé, I listen the easter egg since 1 hour on EP128emu :)
Merci Beaucoup ;)
Hello Geco,
That was a pleasure :-). Next time you decide to do an adaptation of a recent CPC game, don't hesitate to post on the cpc wiki forum, all the "active" people on CPC are registered there : http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php
Can you tell me if there is a topic dealing with cpc to Enterprise conversion ? I would be interested to know how you have done all these great games on Enterprise :-). I suppose you keep the Z80 engine of a program, but you have to change all the routines that deal with video display and port (keyboard, music, memory management ?).
Yours
Hervé
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Hello Geco,
That was a pleasure :-). Next time you decide to do an adaptation of a recent CPC game, don't hesitate to post on the cpc wiki forum, all the "active" people on CPC are registered there : http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php
Can you tell me if there is a topic dealing with cpc to Enterprise conversion ? I would be interested to know how you have done all these great games on Enterprise :-). I suppose you keep the Z80 engine of a program, but you have to change all the routines that deal with video display and port (keyboard, music, memory management ?).
Yours
Hervé
Hello Hervé
Thank youvery muc for the link too. :)
We have a link about converting CPC games, but it is in Hungarian :(
CPC conversion (http://wiki.enterpriseforever.com/index.php/CPC_programok_%C3%A1t%C3%ADr%C3%A1sa#P.C3.A9ld.C3.A1k_CPC_program_.C3.A1t.C3.ADr.C3.A1s.C3.A1ra_r.C3.A9szletes_le.C3.ADr.C3.A1ssal)
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Can you tell me if there is a topic dealing with cpc to Enterprise conversion ? I would be interested to know how you have done all these great games on Enterprise :-). I suppose you keep the Z80 engine of a program, but you have to change all the routines that deal with video display and port (keyboard, music, memory management ?).
The Enterprise have a very flexible programable hardware. You can very easy to simulate other computers (CPC, ZX Spectrum, Videoton TVC, etc) memory and display configurations. It is a exist a CPC Emulator (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Util/Amstrad_CPC_emu.htm) software (by geco :smt038 ) which is use a modified CPC ROM, and can be run a lot of games (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Leiras/Amstrad_CPC_Program_Pack.htm) without any modifications.
If the CPC game use a direct hw handling instead the ROM calls, then needed a conversion with modifiing the program code.
The keyboard/joystick routines and memory paging modifycation is a kidgame :-)
Build up a CPC like screen is also very easy, problem only in 16 colors modes, because the different color order. Needed to search the color codes and replace to another.
The biggest problem is the sound, because the AY and DAVE have a different capatibilities. See the Sub Hunter music problems :ds_icon_cheesygrin:
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Hello,
Thanks for the informations about CPC to Enterprise conversion. Your computer seems to be very flexible and powerfull, a real shame that it has not been well selled in France... I suppose we will see more CPC games on enterprise soon (why don't you try great games as Crafton & Xunk, Operation Wolf or the future R-type MODE 0 remix when it will be available).
I have just tested the new release of Sub Hunter and... There is a bug in the menu music :-(. Last pattern is truncated and does not play properly.
Hervé
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I will check it, may be the problem caused by the new length of the song.
There were some great game converted, you can check on www.ep128.hu, if you see AMSTRAD CPC of the right side of a title, then it is a conversion, mostly new :)
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Hi Geco,
Thanks for the link, that's crazy to see how many games have been converted to Enterprise.
I would be interested too in pure Enterprise game, just to have an idea of the real capabilities
of the computer. Do you have a killer app to recommend me ?
I have one more little complain about Sub Hunter ! In the Intro scroll, there is no credit to Paul
Kooistra although he is the Z80 programmer of the game. That's a pity because Paul has done an impressive
job (I think Z80 code has nothing in common with the C64 one). Please give his credit back. That's easy,
just replace the words about Cataclysm (pure Amstrad stuff, not present on the Enterprise release of the game :-) ).
Hervé
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Hello Hervé
The music is corrected, the problem was that, the new song is longer than the original, and I forgot to change the length of copy routine, so it did not copy the whole song, about 30 byte were missing, the sound was good in the Easter egg:)
Paul Kooistra who made a brilliant job, was returned into the credits :) If I remember well, his name appeared in the game menu, but I changed it to the C64 game menu, except the high score.
Here are some title which shows some extra of Enterprise capabilities:
Small Demo (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Small_Demo.rar) was the first big boom on Enterprise, this Demo was written by Sándor Gyányi with an enterprise with cassette recorder, it contains mod music, pictures with 1 LPT/line, so in 4 colour mode, every line can have 4 different colours, and some nice effect
Ork Megademo 3 (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Ork_Megademo_3.rar) was programmed by Orksoft (Endi (Endre Baráth) who is member if the forum :) ), it is the last big demo for Enterprise, with nice effects, pictures, and digi music.
Enterprise Slideshow 2 (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Enterprise_Slideshow_2.rar) / 3 (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Enterprise_Slideshow_3.rar) was created by Lacika using of amazing tool EPIMGCONV of Istvanv, there are several pictures in interlace attribute mode
Now the games:
Some old title
Magic Ball (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Magicball.rar) it is a trailblazer clone, but I think it is better, it is an original releas for Enterprise
PacMan City 2 (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Pacman_City2.rar) by Endi, it is a great Pac Man clone
Swap (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Swap.rar) is a very good logic game, we can hear MOD music during the game
Now some conversions:
Boulder Dash 1 (CPC) (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Boulder_Dash_1_CPC.rar) , 2 (c64) (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Boulder_Dash_2_C64.rar) , Collection (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/Boulder_Dash_Classic_Collection_1.rar) were converted by Istvanv, he inserted some extra to the game, ex animated c64 screen, changed the game engine to EP character mode so the game became much faster, if I remember well he had to slow down the program :)
IK+ Reloaded (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/International_Karate_Plus_Reloaded.rar) was converted by me from Amstrad originally, but it got 40x26 screen, the lake picture converted from Amiga screen using EPIMGCONV (again, and again :) ), waves implemented on the lake, and the score display have been changed too.
W.H.B. (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Games/Prg/WHB.rar) was converted by me from Spectrum, it became colourful compared with speccy version
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Enterprise Slideshow 2 (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Enterprise_Slideshow_2.rar) / 3 (http://ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Enterprise_Slideshow_3.rar) was created by Lacika using of amazing tool EPIMGCONV of Istvanv, there are several pictures in interlace attribute mode
And also my collections: http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Interlace_Demo_2.rar (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Interlace_Demo_2.rar)
http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Interlace_Demo_3.rar (http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Prg/Interlace_Demo_3.rar)
Example screenshots:
(http://www.ep128.hu/Ep_Demo/Pic/Interlace3.png)
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Sorry Zozo, I forgot about these collections :oops: