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Author Topic: External colour input (Read 5923 times)

Offline lgb

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #45 on: 2016.December.08. 20:35:26 »
It was said long time ago. MSX has a bottle neck with the graphic solutions on cartridge, because graphics have to be loaded indirectly. On Eps whe can paginate the added memory.

At the other hand (especially the V9990, I think) has hw accelerated stuffs, I guess better than what you can do with a Z80 ... But good luck with that, I guess these chips are designed for "private VRAM" (unlike eg Nick in EP, where there is still private VRAM, the CPU can r/w "directly" the VRAM through the Nick, maybe with some speed decrease because of the clock signal "strech" done by Nick to avoid access collusion between itself and the CPU) so almost impossible to do that, especially if V9990 and similar stuffs doing sprite + gfx + own commands running, etc etc. I don't even know there would be free "access time slots" and even if, I doubt if anybody can do it without a horror monster logic ... Maybe dual port memory, but even today it's kinda expensive for hobby purposes, I think.

Online gflorez

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #46 on: 2016.December.09. 06:57:30 »
Now I understand you.

V9990 is a very complex way to "simply" inject sprites on an EP.

Offline pear

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #47 on: 2016.December.09. 07:25:19 »
It will not be easy task.
Perhaps this will be a second computer (GPU?).

Offline lgb

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #48 on: 2016.December.09. 09:19:55 »
It will not be easy task.
Perhaps this will be a second computer (GPU?).

Indeed, sprites are hard. I believe this, because designers of C64's VIC-II stated, that 70% of the chip area was spent only for the sprites, all other functionalities are the rest ... For generating the full screen it's much easier :) Maybe that's also not accident, that TVC prototype sprite unit is so a monster sized one "tower" when built from discrete logic (what it did, I guess ...).

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #49 on: 2016.December.09. 10:08:58 »
Then, we have to search a way to inject a whole screen from a standard video signal.

By little steps. First, synchronising it , and second, splitting in five(four+ transparency) the colour signal.

Offline pear

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #50 on: 2016.December.09. 11:24:56 »
... and then the collision detection of objects, vector graphics commands, and we make a little, neat accelerator: D

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #51 on: 2016.December.09. 11:59:49 »
I remember an Amiga schematic to build a genlock. I have to search it.

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #52 on: 2016.December.09. 20:48:52 »
I don't think it is too difficult, there are a lot of chips used for Teletext or OSD that can serve to test the strange Enterprise colour inputs.

Examples:

Cypress MB90050

STV5730

MAX7456





Offline lgb

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #53 on: 2016.December.09. 21:08:33 »
... and then the collision detection of objects, vector graphics commands, and we make a little, neat accelerator: D

Ah yes, Z-buffering, phong shading, blah-blah shadow casting, and whatever what I even't don't know what means exactly :-) :-) I guess somewhere some say should STOP! :-D :-D

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #54 on: 2016.December.12. 11:53:57 »
On the TVC expansion ports schematics it is specified the direction of the signals:

EXTC\      input
EC0         input
EC1         input
EC2         input
EC3         input
HSYNC\   input
VSYNC\   input
BORDER   input

If the Enterprise inputs work the same, this means for me that Nick will be forced to synchronise its video with the incoming signal, so  "only" remains the task to split the analogue colour to digital.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #55 on: 2016.December.12. 11:57:20 »
At Enterprise the Hsync/Vsync are output (same as on the monitor connector), then the external device need to be synchronized with the Nick.

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #56 on: 2016.December.28. 10:31:06 »
Balagesz tried it!!!

All my suppositions are correct: 16 colors can be used on any display mode, with the highest horizontal resolution, Nick clock are the pixel clock.

1.
Two counters used. One 10 bit counter for the Nick clock (pixel clock). HSYNC clear it, then it is the horizontal position. Bit 9 of this activate the EXTCOL. Another 9 bit counter count the HSYNC, and cleared by the VSYNC. This is the vertical position. Bit 7,6,5,4 connected to EC3,2,1,0

2.
More complex try out hardware: the horizontal counter used for RAM A9-A0, vertical counter for A18-A10. Every byte one pixel. Bit 3,2,1,0 go to EC3,2,1,0, and Bit 7=1 activate the EXTCOL.

3.
Same test as the 1), but now on Iview image. You can see the rectangles using palette colors are changing colours, which are using BIAS colors are fixed. (Second pics: the external color RAM filled with random values at power on.)

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #57 on: 2016.December.28. 12:54:29 »
I have to read and re-read it to try to understand what it does, but this seems a very big discovery.

It is a miracle to think that all EPs where already made to react as this.

Can he show the hardware he is using?

Offline ergoGnomik

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #58 on: 2016.December.28. 13:04:34 »
I have to read and re-read it to try to understand what it does, but this seems a very big discovery.

It is a miracle to think that all EPs where already made to react as this.

Can he show the hardware he is using?
There's no miracle or very big discovery. This was the capability of NICK from the very beginning. And it is documented in its description. You don't have to understand what and how it does. That's only a test hardware balagesz made to do some experiments on the external colour inputs (EC0..EC3, /EXTC).

Offline Zozosoft

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Re: External colour input
« Reply #59 on: 2016.December.28. 13:09:13 »
And it is documented in its description.
But not fully. Many properties only guessed until now.